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 Post subject: Elfball tactics
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 12:45 am 
Kommissar Enthusiasmoff
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This will be my brain-dump thread for general elfball tactics - there is a similar thread on Impact's forum:
http://artistsunited.myfreeforum.org/about1837.html

Played 3 tests of elfball tonight, Siringit v Sarcos against Barnacles, who was playing for the first time (but is quite quick on the uptake!). I'm going to try and keep this thread updated as my tactics develop. I'm mostly going to be playing with Siringit, but may try other teams out.

- The Tantor is a monster. The Sarcos had a big lizard, but even he has less might than Mr Elephant, getting an extra grit instead. My Tantor scored both my goals, having thrown the ball to him with a Skill 4 player, who picked the ball up on the same go so he had enough momentum to ensure either a perfect spiral, or standing next to him for an automatic catch.

- Having said that, the Sarcos were unlucky not to take him down. As he can only move every other turn, a good tactic was to stand a player next to him for the assist, and then Tackle him from the back the next turn. This meant the Impact challenge only needed 2 successes, and once that's over then the Tackle challenge is easy.

- The tests varied in their bloodiness. There were a massive amount of stars in the first test (playing 1 star = 2 successes), so almost every tackle resulted in a 3 dice Injury Challenge. As you need at least 4 successes to stay on the pitch, this did not happen very often! After this however we learnt to hunt in packs and stay away from each other a bit more, so the injuries decreased massively.

- A lot of the game is about threat. The Monsters are scary for example, and if they get in the middle of the pitch this stops enemies coming too close, so the team can work within this space and then shepherd the Monster up. This applies to Defenders and Hunters as well, plus specialists like the Widowmaker. This threat was also apparent against the Dervish, with Jog 7 and Might 5, who can patrol the edges very effectively.

- I lost all the face-offs. I'm just saying, that's all. Managed to win 2 of the 3 tests though, so it's not massively critical it seems. We were doing the optional rule face-off.

Mike

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Last edited by sann0638 on Tue Jan 26, 2010 11:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Elfball tactics
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 10:56 am 
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The beauty of ElfBall is that there is so much strategy involved and the fact that no one team is better than another, like BB where if you are Khemri you know how you are going to play, Likewise for Wood Elves.

As you say, a Tantor is a brute! SillySod liked to pass the ball with momentum to make his Deadwood autocatch the ball, he positioned the rest of his guys quite well so that it was quite hard for me to get in behind him and take him down

In addition to that he managed to pin down 2 of my guys with a Deadwood, giving him a numerical advantage as I couldnt get away and my priority was trying to get the ball back

I must find out what evenings you are free that I could get a VASSAL game in!

Im usually free Mon 8-10, Weds 8-10, the odd Friday 8-10 and most Sundays 4-10!

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 Post subject: Re: Elfball tactics
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 11:05 am 
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Monday and Sunday evenings good for me!

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 Post subject: Re: Elfball tactics
 Post Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 11:17 pm 
Kommissar Enthusiasmoff
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Few more games played now:

Marathon online v Brownrob - 3 hours for 1 test, though this was lengthened by it being online. 2-2.5 hours TT equivalent, probably.

Siringit v Sarcos, he took a ref so started with the Leviathan in the centre and proceeded to flop his first 4 challenges. I failed to make the most of this by failing to pick up the ball, not flopping but not managing anything useful. We then went back and forth up and down the pitch, and I eventually got the ball to my Tantor by throwing it to him. I went for a quick finish, using a couple of cheerleaders to give myself some momentum, thinking I would be able to disengage successfully with the rerolls. Unfortunately, I forgot that you can't reroll flops, so promptly flopped the disengage. Should have just been patient - learning point there!

Brought a substitute on at a good time, which should have been a game winner as it led to the situation above.

Tabletop v Charon: Siringit v Pharoahs
Played a couple of tests and won both, mainly by destroying his team which is one of the least bashy out there. Learnt a few bits from this:
1) Jog 7 players are useful - at the beginning, they can be positioned so that they can reach the centre of the pitch, either to retrieve the ball or to bash the opposition player. They also can catch the opponent by surprise, as most players have jog of 6 or less.
2) Players with a dodge of 4 or more can be difficult to take down, especially with no momentum. This, combined with point 1, is making me lean towards a mecat, which I don't currently have.
3) A fight between 2 defenders is entertaining, because they both have enough power to take the other down easily, but not necessarily off the pitch, so they can keep standing up and whacking each other.
4) We're probably going to start playing the conditional success rules, as it brings in a bit more randomness to predicting the number of successes, which should be good fun.
5) Cheerleaders are good for effectively increasing the distance that people can score from by 1 hex, as they give a free dash challenge. Less good for other things, as if you flop then you hand the momentum to the opposition. This does not apply if you have used them for the dash.
6) The optimum thrower position is 6 squares from the white line, then he can get to the halfway and throw it. Further back and he can't make progress (apart from through the middle), further forward and he's more likely to get tanked.

Introductory tabletop v lnessmon: Siringit v Middle Kingdoms

MK are the human equivalent, except they are allowed 2 ogres. They have 4 safeties, which makes them a fast team, especially when combined with the skill of the strikers and throwers. Difficult to learn much from the match as it was an intro game, but MK seem like an interesting team.

Am currently undecided about whether to become a Siringit uber-specialist, or start playing with other teams. Only problem is that I absolutely love my Gorillaur and Tantor models, and want to use them as much as possible!

More thoughts later - these are mostly for my benefit, but hope others find them interesting.

Mike

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 Post subject: Re: Elfball tactics
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 9:40 pm 
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Are they any Elfball player in Germany?

Would like to try the game out.

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 Post subject: Re: Elfball tactics
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 4:45 pm 
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The danger of Elfball is trying to play it like Bloodbowl.

You don't have to tackle opponents and it is worth considering the chances and consequences of a flop.

When playing with and against human sized teams (Desert Dogs, Black Widows etc) I find it useful to keep shoving until an opposing player is on the white line and the ref sends them off. The Desert Dogs dervish is particularly good for this. Once you have a numerical advantage on the pitch, it is only a matter of time before you score.

?!?

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 Post subject: Re: Elfball tactics
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 11:31 pm 
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Siringit v Spiky's Timberline Elves

Elves break easily in this game too! Won the simplified face-off and my thrower took the ball into my own half and passed it on. I then gathered my players into a bunch and gradually moved up the pitch, picking off any elf foolish enough to get within range of the hunter/defender/tantor, who all have tackle 4.

Tackle 4 is seeming to be critical for playing the attrition game.

Siringit v Spiky's Divine Wind

Having decided that Tackle 4 is important, Steve reverted to the Divine Wind with access to 3 hunters and 3 defenders, though he only took two of each so that he could handle the ball too. This game was a lot closer, and could have gone either way, and it was only a great solo effort by the gorillaur, helped by a couple of cheerleaders (and Steve not knowing that you can move then challenge with a Dash challenge), that saved the day. Didn't actually score, but we stopped when it was 5 v 1 players in my favour!

I won the face-off on this one too, might play him winning next time to see if I can defend as well! (maybe not though!)

Only 3.5 weeks until the tournament now!

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 Post subject: Re: Elfball tactics
 Post Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 12:58 am 
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sann0638 wrote:
Siringit v Spiky's Timberline Elves
Playing Timberline is a lot about the strategy of the pushing your way to victory.

Tom

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 Post subject: Re: Elfball tactics
 Post Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 11:01 pm 
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Been practising a bit now, playing with Siringit against different races using the Vassal tool, mostly playing from the faceoff until someone gets to a secure position, then occasionally some middle game.

Using the standard face-off rules, which are different to the "tournament" ones. It's difficult to know who to put into the circle, as if you put a Might 4 player in and they lose, they can usually be taken out in the subsequent Tackle, though that in itself is a risky play! Lots to think about.

If you lose the face off, you're going to be reacting to the opposition, so I've been concentrating on what do I do if I win it. I'm enjoying placing the Meerkat 7 squares away, as it has jog 7 and skill 3, so can get to the ball and secure it. It's then not too vulnerable as it has Dodge 5, so should be able to survive any subsequent hit. I've been using a Defender in the circle, which means that anyone attacking the Meerkat is liable to get walloped, then allowing the Meerkat to run off and give the ball to a Thrower standing next to the Tantor bodyguard. This is normally fairly safe for a bit, allowing other players to then get into position to move up the pitch.

"Openings" like this seem to be a great aspect of elfball, as the initial setup is largely predictable (1-2-2-1!).

So far I've played against:
- Gnolls, who don't really miss Defenders because they have Hunters to cause damage.
- Dwarves, who do seem a wee bit dull, although the Might/Tackle 4 and Skill 3 combo is nice.
- Pharoahs, who seem a bit fragile.
- Black Widows, with the mighty Widowmaker.
- Timberline, who can dominate a space by pushing the other team around.

I still haven't seen the Shoving game be effective as a game winner, as characters like the Dryads and Dervishes are not truly scary because they can't hurt people. I'm actually looking forward to being taught a lesson in this aspect!

Cheers,
Mike

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 Post subject: Re: Elfball tactics
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 3:05 pm 
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sann0638 wrote:
I still haven't seen the Shoving game be effective as a game winner, as characters like the Dryads and Dervishes are not truly scary because they can't hurt people. I'm actually looking forward to being taught a lesson in this aspect!


Agree here! I've not had much use once people learn not to leave players close to the sideline or goal circles

Not sure this tactic is something that can be easily explained on a forum :(

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 Post subject: Re: Elfball tactics
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 8:21 pm 
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Introductory Game: Siringit v Deadlings

I started with the mecat for the first time, playing against WilburS in an online demo. He had 2 deadwoods, 2 vamps and 2 monsters on the pitch, which is the obvious deadling build. Hadn't come across the deadwoods before, and my tantor got a bit of a surprise with someone who did not need an impact challenge to whack him! A DW came in range, so the tantor blew his battle cry (timber!) and trundled towards him, only to roll zero successes, which was the worst possible result, as down would have made the tantor safe (actually, 2 successes would have been bad too, as the DW could have just got up).

So my tantor is now standing next to the DW, wondering what to do. I shoved him, which was useless. With hindsight, I should have disengaged, as that would have put me down (most likely), and thus safe. So I've discovered a new tactic - doing something unlikely and going down is much safer than being knocked down (another change from BB!).

As it was, the next turn he took out the tantor, then took out my hunter the turn after that, leaving me with a team of wimps. Unfortunately I had to go to bed at that stage :oops:

Mike

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