Abstaining from ranking

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Hobnail
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Re: Abstaining from ranking

Post by Hobnail »

VoodooMike wrote: The NAF's lack of transparency has always been one of its weaknesses - it is insular and opaque, and often accomplishes nothing noteworthy across a given election term. Doing everything behind closed doors, especially when the results affect people outside that closed room, does little to help demonstrate the relevance of the organization to those who question it.

...

I think the NAF should focus on cleaning up the dirt rather than pushing it under carpets lest outsiders realize it exists.
Whereas airing your dirty laundry in public is tried and tested.

My point was that the NAF should, as you say, "focus on cleaning up the dirt" - however this is not the place for that discussion imo. Nor are we the NAF committee.

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Re: Abstaining from ranking

Post by Vanguard »

VoodooMike wrote:Does the NAF calculate people's rankings based on a elo-style formula?
They do.

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Re: Abstaining from ranking

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Hobnail wrote:Whereas airing your dirty laundry in public is tried and tested.
It is, actually. Look at the shake-up in mass media as of late regarding sexual abuse and harassment - that's very specifically a matter of airing dirty laundry in public because not doing so had created a culture of silent complacency where the people who caused the problems could thrive.

Yes, it's an ugly business, but the alternative is to just live with it or unrealistically expect problems to spontaneously resolve themselves.
Hobnail wrote:My point was that the NAF should, as you say, "focus on cleaning up the dirt" - however this is not the place for that discussion imo. Nor are we the NAF committee.
Everywhere is the appropriate place for discussion - the NAF is not some sacred topic that must never be discussed by us mere mortals. If this sort of discussion makes people question whether they take part in the NAF then that means the NAF is in a bad place, and has a serious PR problem.

Closed-door NAF committee decisions are what got us to where we are today. If where we are today is unsatisfactory (to you or whomever) then clearly that's not a system that is working out.
Vanguard wrote:They do.
They use an elo-style system? I was unaware of that. They really shouldn't. All of the analysis we've done over the years has told us that such systems achieve poor results for Blood Bowl, even if, on paper, it seems like they should be good for everything.

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Re: Abstaining from ranking

Post by Joemanji »

This thread proves yet again why Darkson is not only unsuitable to de facto head moderator here, but possibly one of the most poisonous characters in our community. This was not the correct way to go about this. If you are not just throwing a hissy fit Simon, and have reasonable adult concerns about your 'data' being collected after you resign your NAF membership then you should have approached your NAF rep in person. Al or Andy would have been happy to help, as would people on the committee should it be needed. But this is just another example of you lacking even basic social skills. Grow up.

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Re: Abstaining from ranking

Post by sann0638 »

Voodoo Mike is right. All naf policy should be public and should be the same. But it's tricky due to some people.

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Re: Abstaining from ranking

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I'm not suggesting anything should be swept under the rug. I'm suggesting if someone has a legitimate problem they wish to solve that moaning about it on a forum is a deeply unproductive and even spiteful way of trying to do so.

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Re: Abstaining from ranking

Post by Hobnail »

Well said Joe.

As for NAF policy being public...surely an Agenda and minutes of the meeting achieve just that without dragging the issue through the mud like this?

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Re: Abstaining from ranking

Post by sann0638 »

Hobnail wrote:Well said Joe.

As for NAF policy being public...surely an Agenda and minutes of the meeting achieve just that without dragging the issue through the mud like this?
Of course. I posted in haste on my phone. My point was that we should try to limit "accepted ways of doing things" imo and make it clear what NAF policy is on stuff.

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Re: Abstaining from ranking

Post by Willi »

Joemanji wrote:This thread proves yet again why Darkson is not only unsuitable to de facto head moderator here, but possibly one of the most poisonous characters in our community. This was not the correct way to go about this. If you are not just throwing a hissy fit Simon, and have reasonable adult concerns about your 'data' being collected after you resign your NAF membership then you should have approached your NAF rep in person. Al or Andy would have been happy to help, as would people on the committee should it be needed. But this is just another example of you lacking even basic social skills. Grow up.
Have to strongly disagree here.
In a basically democratic country or organisation it is not in any way incorrect or poisonous to disagree with a decision and start a public discussion about that. Thats the way to find others with the same opinion as you and probably bring changes to the decision, organisation or country.
Joemanji wrote: I'm suggesting if someone has a legitimate problem they wish to solve that moaning about it on a forum is a deeply unproductive and even spiteful way of trying to do so.
Same here again. The legitimate problem is there, an - in Darksons view - bad decision of the NAF (or rather two decisions). And for venting ones frustration about bad decisions the internet an especially a forum dedicated to the matter to which the decisions relate is a good way to start a discussion and get changes started (or find out that you stand alone).

So in my opinion this is a valuable discussion that also went into issues the NAF probaly has not yet focused enough (GDPR).

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Re: Abstaining from ranking

Post by zulu »

When we get to a situation where a group of people playing a board game start to get involved in GDPR and data protection discussions show we have lost our sense of perspective.

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Re: Abstaining from ranking

Post by rakkzul »

JT-Y wrote:Just allow individual users to set their profiles to 'private' or 'hidden' or whatever. Their opponents will still get the points for rankings, but the individuals details and match records can be hidden if they so wish.
Can't this be done? I don't know how the database was built, but if it's possible could be a solution

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Re: Abstaining from ranking

Post by hutchinsfairy »

Willi wrote:In a basically democratic country or organisation
There was a vote and the consensus was that Brets and Khorne should be included. What Darkson is doing looks suspiciously like someone litigating because consensus and public discussion did not deliver the verdict they wanted. Hardly an expression of democratic ideals.

The outcome of this, if any, is likely to be extra pointless work with no discernible benefit for anyone, hence the impression of a wholly spiteful intent.

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Re: Abstaining from ranking

Post by sann0638 »

rakkzul wrote:
JT-Y wrote:Just allow individual users to set their profiles to 'private' or 'hidden' or whatever. Their opponents will still get the points for rankings, but the individuals details and match records can be hidden if they so wish.
Can't this be done? I don't know how the database was built, but if it's possible could be a solution
JTY requested it in a personal message to me, and we allocated NAF funds to develop it so that the TO record and winners could be hidden. To hide more than that would be overkill in my opinion.

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Re: Abstaining from ranking

Post by sann0638 »

Hobnail wrote: As for NAF policy being public...surely an Agenda and minutes of the meeting achieve just that without dragging the issue through the mud like this?
You'll notice that the minutes were published showing this decision in November. People chose not to read them, sadly.

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Re: Abstaining from ranking

Post by sann0638 »

VoodooMike wrote: If I were a newcomer I'd find it hard to find any reason to join the NAF unless I was about to play a tournament that required it. The NAF has done little to cultivate a positive relationship with BB players, opting instead to pursue ways to make people feel they need to join it rather than wanting to join it. The emphasis has been "If you don't join the NAF you can't..." rather than making people who aren't yet members see how the organization makes the game better for them and making them want to be a part of it.
I think you are anonymous, is that right? So difficult to know if you have seen any of the benefits from the work of myself and other committee members over the last couple of years. I would say some of these hold, but no doubt you will disagree: http://www.thenaf.net/2015/12/why-join-the-naf/

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