NAF response to possible BB2 rule changes

[DeToX86]

I'm a Cyanide and TT player who got into TT because of Cyanide. I now own at least 15 teams and have gone to tournaments including Chaos Cup last year and 3 Die Brawl this year. Here is my question:

If the owner of the game (GW) has given permission to Cyanide to make changes to the rules, why would they not become the new authority and their version of the game accepted? They are the new governing body of BB. (For Better or Worse.) Do they need to publish a rulebook for you guys to accept it? I'm sorry, but "we are old, cranky, resistant to change and we don't like you" doesn't feel like good enough reason to desperately cling to an outdated version of the game.

From everything I can gather the NAF had it's chance to sheppard the game and if not for Cyanide this would be a dead game played by a handful of diehards. (Who would sadly prefer it that way!) Cyanide energized an existing fanbase and expanded it greatly. (With limited help from FUMBBL.) The future of BB is brighter than ever, yet we have a bunch of people trying deperately to hold it back and maintain the status quo in order to protect an arbitrary and arcane ranking system that now includes a much, much lesser % of it's playerbase.

The NAF can make whatever decision it wants, but I personally think we'd all be much better off with them getting a seat at the table and assisting the change versus drawing a line in the sand and alienating themselves even further from a very large segment of players.

[Regash]

If the owner of the game (GW) has given permission to Cyanide to make changes to the rules, why would they not become the new authority and their version of the game accepted? They are the new governing body of BB.

There is a little problem with that.
GW gave away the license for computer games related to Blood Bowl. They can't just go realese new minis or write their own rulebook or whatever.
Have you ever heard of Shadowrun? Microsoft once got the license for computer games for it, made one hell of a terrible game that had absolutely NOTHING to do with the shadowrun universe and then kept the license, as far as I know unil today. But Microsoft can't publish new RPG rulebooks or SR-novels!

It really isn't as simple as that, believe me.

Basically, Cyanide can change what ever they want in their games. Or maybe even GW might have a say in this too! But they probably got no rights connected to the tabletop game. We might even see GW turning down some of the now made changes to the rules and when BB2 officially starts, all those things might be gone.
So, if Cyanide decides to add a bretonnian team, even if GW approves, that does not in the faintest touch the TT rules.

Strange, stupid, but that's the modern world for you.

[Joemanji]

From everything I can gather the NAF had it's chance to sheppard the game and if not for Cyanide this would be a dead game played by a handful of diehards. (Who would sadly prefer it that way!) Cyanide energized an existing fanbase and expanded it greatly. (With limited help from FUMBBL.)

Sorry, this is way off base. 99% of tournament players are people who played the TT game first. The crossover between Cyanide and TT (at least here in the UK) has been really really limited. I've been shocked by it to be honest - I thought it would do exactly what that guy interviewed by PC Gamer spun that it has. But the reality is that has not happened to any great extent. As UK NTO I try to speak to new faces on the tournament circuit when I see them. "I got into this via Cyanide" is not a very common story, whereas "me and my mates have being playing amongst ourselves for ages and only heard about this NAF thing recently" is. And I hope this is one of the reasons why the NAF committee is resistant to Cyanide's whims when it comes to game design - because they really are different fan bases, with different needs.

[lunchmoney]

If the owner of the game (GW) has given permission to Cyanide to make changes to the rules, why would they not become the new authority and their version of the game accepted? They are the new governing body of BB.

There is a little problem with that.
GW gave away the license for computer games related to Blood Bowl. They can't just go realese new minis or write their own rulebook or whatever.
Have you ever heard of Shadowrun? Microsoft once got the license for computer games for it, made one hell of a terrible game that had absolutely NOTHING to do with the shadowrun universe and then kept the license, as far as I know unil today. But Microsoft can't publish new RPG rulebooks or SR-novels!

It really isn't as simple as that, believe me.

Basically, Cyanide can change what ever they want in their games. Or maybe even GW might have a say in this too! But they probably got no rights connected to the tabletop game. We might even see GW turning down some of the now made changes to the rules and when BB2 officially starts, all those things might be gone.
So, if Cyanide decides to add a bretonnian team, even if GW approves, that does not in the faintest touch the TT rules.

Strange, stupid, but that's the modern world for you.

Additionally, I feel this needs repeating, the Cyanide game is a just a house ruled league. Any rules they want to change, they can, but it does not effect anyone else's league/tournament.

[Itchen Masack]

Joe, you may well be right, and it'll be me that is surprised, but I personally got into TT via Cyanide. Admittedly I had played BB at home as a child which made me initially buy the game on a whim, but the version from back then is completely different and wouldn't hold my interest today. UKBBL (a Cyanide league) holds TT events twice a year with approx. 30 players (not always the same ones) and I suspect at least half of them arrived via Cyanide like me.

Perhaps a poll created by someone more capable and interesting than myself? Just to see numbers. I honestly would be surprised if it was indeed only 1% of TT player who arrived here via Cyanide.

[Itchen Masack]

Adding to this, if it turns out you really are correct, I have to wonder why there are not more Cyanide TT players? Seems to be a large pool to draw from. Have to admit that in the past I have on occasion felt the NAF to be pro-FUMBBL and anti-Cyanide and I hope that isn't the reason. This is probably just my own misreading of the situation, and confusing TFF with NAF (the line is blurry to me) but I have to be honest and sometimes feel that way.

[Darkson]

GW said (at the time) they had no intention of adding Khorne to the TT game. Of course, since they said that they've stopped supporting BB completely, so that may or may not have been the reason for them saying that.

[Darkson]

Have to admit that in the past I have on occasion felt the NAF to be pro-FUMBBL and anti-Cyanide and I hope that isn't the reason. This is probably just my own misreading of the situation, and confusing TFF with NAF (the line is blurry to me) but I have to be honest and sometimes feel that way.

Actually, TFF has traditionally been anti-FUMBBL, the only time many (most?) Fumbbl players posted here was when Fumbbl was down, and even then it was just to post "Is Fumbbl down?". It was pro-PBeM back in the day though.

[sann0638]

Is it time for a Great Big Blood Bowl Survey (TM) of some sort, I wonder?

Would have to be non-anonymous, to avoid answering it than once, probably. Hmmm... <thinking hat on>

(it's never off, really...)

[Shteve0]

Is it time for a Great Big Blood Bowl Survey (TM) of some sort, I wonder?

Funny, I had much the same thought.

[Vanguard]

Is it time for a Great Big Blood Bowl Survey (TM) of some sort, I wonder?

Would have to be non-anonymous, to avoid answering it than once, probably. Hmmm... <thinking hat on>

(it's never off, really...)

If anonymity was important (and I'm not sure it is under the circumstances) there are sites like SurveyMonkey which you can use to create surveys with user registration but anonymised results.
The free version is limited to about ten questions but might still work. There are other alternatives that I can't recall off the top of my head.

[Joemanji]

No need, the results are pretty obvious. A survey on the internet will return a result weighted towards those who play BB on the internet. Just as if you took the poll in the room when 1000 coaches get together for the World Cup later this year, it would be weighted towards those who don't.

[sann0638]

No need, the results are pretty obvious. A survey on the internet will return a result weighted towards those who play BB on the internet. Just as if you took the poll in the room when 1000 coaches get together for the World Cup later this year, it would be weighted towards those who don't.

Or, to put a positive constructive spin on it, "let's do the same survey at the World Cup too, then we can compare the results!". Good idea, Joe.

[Regash]

Just to remind some guys...
The rules of Chess have never been altered in centuries and it's still one of the most played games in the world.

Anyone remember Harry Potter 5?

Progress for the sake of progress must be discouraged.

That's what I think about Blood Bowl.
To change the rules just to have them changed makes no sense.
There are, right now, 24 official teams to be played.
Each of these can be played in different styles as well.
You can't find anything to meet your needs?
Than you're doing something wrong, pal!

And all the changes in all the rulebooks never really touched the actual gameplay.
So all the changes were basically just clarifications or fluff.

Just my opinion.

[Vanguard]

No need, the results are pretty obvious. A survey on the internet will return a result weighted towards those who play BB on the internet. Just as if you took the poll in the room when 1000 coaches get together for the World Cup later this year, it would be weighted towards those who don't.

I'm not convinced that's true. By the same rationale, a discussion on a forum would be weighted towards online players but I don't get that feeling on TFF, if anything it's the opposite.