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 Post subject: Re: NAF response to possible BB2 rule changes
 Post Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2015 3:57 am 
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Regash wrote:
Fassbinder75 wrote:
GW mentoring Cyanide/Focus is clearly paying dividends.
I think, this is rather a sign of the times.

Why on earth do people spend the night in front of an apple store, just so they can be the first to purchase a new phone for a lot of money, that is very similar or almost identical to the phone they already have in their pockets?
Why are people willing to pay for Games that are sold in slices called DLC?
Look at Kickstarter! People are throwing money at projects, buying products that not even exist yet, ignoring the fact that maybe they never will exist.


See, I take issue with this, as a Kickstarter backer, with 100% success rate. These games wouldn't have been made without some seed money and backers to show interest, especially awesome old school games like Pillars or Eternity, or board game inspired games (like Warmachine, Shadowrun or currently Battletech). Most of these full games give you so much more for 20 or 30 or 40 dollars than 100 dollars on a table top game could hope to get you. Why invest in one game, when I could enjoy 5 or 10 on the PC or console, and play with people all around the world?

Today's potential table top gamers are looking around and seeing a lot more options, but digitally and physically (boardgames have gotten so cool in the last 10 years!), so Blood Bowl is now one of many. And it looks like Granny has had some great success with Vermintide and Mordheim. These are games I want to plan. Blood Bowl on the PC? Not so much, or at least not without offering something different from FUMBBL or the table top.


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 Post subject: Re: NAF response to possible BB2 rule changes
 Post Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2015 7:41 am 
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Is your soul purpose of being here to knock and criticize BB?

So recently we've had:

*It's not balanced.
*It doesn't play well.
*You have no interest in playing it in the established format.

From what I can see, it's a game you never mastered, and it appears you aren't interested in playing. You just like the background and would prefer a real time version.

You've been here a fair while now...........I have to ask, why? All I'm getting is you're jaded and dislike the whole deal.


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 Post subject: Re: NAF response to possible BB2 rule changes
 Post Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2015 4:34 pm 
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legowarrior wrote:
Regash wrote:
Look at Kickstarter! People are throwing money at projects, buying products that not even exist yet, ignoring the fact that maybe they never will exist.
See, I take issue with this, as a Kickstarter backer, with 100% success rate. These games wouldn't have been made without some seed money and backers to show interest, especially awesome old school games like Pillars or Eternity, or board game inspired games (like Warmachine, Shadowrun or currently Battletech). Most of these full games give you so much more for 20 or 30 or 40 dollars than 100 dollars on a table top game could hope to get you. Why invest in one game, when I could enjoy 5 or 10 on the PC or console, and play with people all around the world?
I wasn't talking about games, I was talking about Kickstarter (or similar) projects.
The typical Kickstarter project is something nobody really needs. Just some lifestyle product that other companies have been rejecting.
Some might disagree, Kickstarter for me has degenerated from a good idea to an idiots playground where even large companies let the customer buy the product in advance and then start producing instead of investing their own capital as it should be. (And to be quite honest, I think Shadowrun to be an utter failure as a game. It not only is an outdated isometric view game, it also doesn't give the Shadowrun feeling and decking in the game is a joke!)

And, I'm sorry to tell you, but all these online versions of tabletop or board games are just the wrong direction if you ask me.
Tabletops and board games should be friends and buddies having a good time, sitting at the same table.
Games like these weren't meant for people sitting alone at their PC with a headset.
Those people in your friendslist aren't friends. They're just gamers somewhere else in the world.

Vermintide is a very bad example, as it is never been any kind of game that has been played on a table.
Vermintide is basically a 4 player coop shooter, it's a clone of Left 4 Dead. Oh heck, people even start calling it Left 4 rats.
It's just a game that has already been successful and now it's been done again, this time with a franchise behind it.


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 Post subject: Re: NAF response to possible BB2 rule changes
 Post Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2015 4:44 pm 
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Kickstarter is a failure...

Hmmm...


My 25 Dreadball teams + Ultimate diesagree, something Mantic say would have taken at least 6 years (if at all) to do if they had to fund it themselves (I know some don't like DB, but I do, so there). And then there's is also Deadzone, Kings of War, Warpath and Dungeon Saga, some or all of which wouldn't have been possible without KS.

I'm sure Tom and Impact would have struggled getting 20+ teams into Trollcast without KS, at least for many years.

Gent down the road from me managed to make some BIG monsters (Minion Miniatures), something he wouldn't have been able to do on his own.
Similary Dead Earth Games managed to produce the rules and starter gangs, plus 3 additional gangs just because of KS.

I've backed 50+ KS, I've got one that is probably going to not produce (because the guy took on to much and doesn't have the courage to admit it) and the rest I've been pleased to back, even if some have been a little more disappointing than others.

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 Post subject: Re: NAF response to possible BB2 rule changes
 Post Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2015 10:03 pm 
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Regash wrote:
it also doesn't give the Shadowrun feeling and decking in the game is a joke!)

And, I'm sorry to tell you, but all these online versions of tabletop or board games are just the wrong direction if you ask me.
Tabletops and board games should be friends and buddies having a good time, sitting at the same table.
Games like these weren't meant for people sitting alone at their PC with a headset.
Those people in your friendslist aren't friends. They're just gamers somewhere else in the world.


It's a shame about Shadowrun, I can see why, but it's a shame. Why o why is the near future always so bloody near!!!

Gaming has moved on, it's radically changed with technology. We have an aging playerbase (as seen in the NAF survey). This and the change in direction of gaming is no coincidence.

Why do I no longer feel the need to play TT games? I don't know, there are a lot of reasons, however I was a huge 'lead head' from 8-28 but now have no interest in picking up a figure.


Last edited by harvestmouse on Tue Nov 03, 2015 7:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: NAF response to possible BB2 rule changes
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 3:20 am 
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Regash wrote:
Tabletops and board games should be friends and buddies having a good time, sitting at the same table.
Games like these weren't meant for people sitting alone at their PC with a headset.

Things change. In the past there was no internet so games were designed to be played in real life with your friends around a table but now we have the technology to play tabletop games online with people from all the world, I don't see why we should not use it.
The human beings used their voice to communicate with people close to them, should we not use phones now because speaking was in origin used to communicate just with people close to you? I think not.
Also, there is a very practical reason behind playing online and not with real life people: if you live in a small city where nobody is interested in your tabletop game (BB or whatever) it's better to play with people from all the world than not playing at all.
I used to play tabletop BB when I was younger but years pass and some real life friends lost interest or simply have not enough time to play a tabletop game (family, children, work, university etc.).
Regash wrote:
Those people in your friendslist aren't friends. They're just gamers somewhere else in the world.

Some are not friends, I agree, but I have some old friends I knew on internet, and I spend more time talking with them than with "friends" I know in real life. If you are selective you can have good online friends, although they live far from you.

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 Post subject: Re: NAF response to possible BB2 rule changes
 Post Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2015 12:40 am 
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MattDakka wrote:
Some are not friends, I agree, but I have some old friends I knew on internet, and I spend more time talking with them than with "friends" I know in real life. If you are selective you can have good online friends, although they live far from you.


Just throwing it out there, but that may be a sad commentary on your own life, rather than the quality of people on the internet. Frankly anyone who I have not had the pleasure of at least shaking their hand are nothing more than soundbites, pixels, and possibly a very clever AI.

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 Post Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2015 6:37 am 
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Not judgy at all, then

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 Post subject: Re: NAF response to possible BB2 rule changes
 Post Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2015 10:50 am 
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This is getting way off the original topic, but if you play online, sometimes you see the same people on, over and over again, or maybe play in an online league with them, and get to know them a bit. Even if you only know them from playing or maybe from a forum, you feel like you get to know them. There are several folks like that who I consider friends, even if you've never met them in real life.

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 Post subject: Re: NAF response to possible BB2 rule changes
 Post Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2015 12:00 pm 
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"to know someone" and "to be friends with someone" is not the same.
And what I really wanted to say is that online play is taking games away from what they were designed to be: Having a good time with people you know and like!
BB online, no matter which platform, takes BB to a mostly competetive level and people tend to take this game more serious than even the designers did.
RTFM and you know what I mean...


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 Post subject: Re: NAF response to possible BB2 rule changes
 Post Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2015 1:15 pm 
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I'd say it's the amount of games you can play online, the ability to check out teams and stats of good players at the click of a button, the ability to spectate any game you wish at any time and the ability to share theories with examples.

Of course you're more likely to be a dick on the net than in real life, but that's not exclusive; which my lifetime Warhammer ban testifies.

Also I'd say that the tourney scene is in someways more competitive. Where as a perpetual league has teams building and fluffing the team building. Resurrection tournies do not, and are played as a coach taking on a coach with a team.

The worlds moved on. I agree with taken things far to far. Much further than what has intended. It's a testimony to the game and the community though that the game hasn't just survived, it's surviving well.

I think whether you play online or on a table. You play resurrection, league or perpetual it doesn't matter. It's your game and you need to protect it. The game shouldn't be exploited; whether that means changing the rules or hitting the nails tat stick out, is up for debate. However we need to protect and promote the game and we need to as one for that common goal. Not "I don't care what happens there, it's nothing to do with me." Because yes, yes it does.


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 Post subject: Re: NAF response to possible BB2 rule changes
 Post Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2015 3:07 pm 
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harvestmouse wrote:
Not "I don't care what happens there, it's nothing to do with me." Because yes, yes it does.
I'll be honest: BB2 doesn't exist in my game world.
Whatever they did and whyever they did it, I will not recognize anyone playing by these "rules".
That is one of the reasons why I stopped playing online completely.


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 Post subject: Re: NAF response to possible BB2 rule changes
 Post Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2015 11:58 pm 
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harvestmouse wrote:
I think whether you play online or on a table. You play resurrection, league or perpetual it doesn't matter. It's your game and you need to protect it. The game shouldn't be exploited; whether that means changing the rules or hitting the nails tat stick out, is up for debate. However we need to protect and promote the game and we need to as one for that common goal. Not "I don't care what happens there, it's nothing to do with me." Because yes, yes it does.


Though, people are not playing the same game. People do not want to play the same.


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