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 Post subject: Re: Why join the NAF?
 Post Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2015 12:32 pm 
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sann0638 wrote:
Thought you had looked around the site? http://www.thenaf.net/the-naf/staff/
Yep, that is where I've read Kithor is RTO in my region of Germany.

But there are no contact details there and Kithor still moved to Switzerland and is probably not available anymore as RTO for this region?
And there is only a generic "Contact the NAF!"-Link or a members only way of contacting them.

Thought you had read my post? :wink: :orc:


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 Post subject: Re: Why join the NAF?
 Post Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2015 12:44 pm 
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Contact via PM on the NAF site, as it says on that page. Unreasonable to make it members only?

But will pass on about Kithor - TD's responsibility. Thank you for taking such an interest in the NAF!

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 Post subject: Re: Why join the NAF?
 Post Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2015 12:56 pm 
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sann0638 wrote:
Contact via PM on the NAF site, as it says on that page. Unreasonable to make it members only?
In my opinion: Yes!
Especially if you want to get more members in the long run.

Thinking about it, I think putting out their own data is a not so good idea...
An e-mail adress <name>@thenaf.net or a link with a contact form that will send the message not to the NAF but the NTO or RTO directly.

I imagine I'd be glad to contact "my" RTO just for general info about running a tournament, a first even, maybe.
I' not a fan of being registered everywhere, just to see what's up. Espcially if signing up isn't free.
But maybe it's just me.


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 Post subject: Re: Why join the NAF?
 Post Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2015 2:16 pm 
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Thanks for the information about Kithor, Regash. We do rely on some degree of self-reporting if staffers leave their area or need to stop performing their duties. While there might be a handful of outdated entries on that list, most staff members are active and in regular contact.

Some of them use their personal email addresses for NAF communications, so I'm not sure that publishing those on several forums and websites is the best idea. Most are active on TFF or regional BB forums, so can be reached easily enough by private messaging. If that fails, you can always contact me to be put in touch, though that would probably also require membership on some forum or form of social media. As a last resort, there are the contact forms on the NAF site.

There has been talk of altering the regional staff positions to remove some of the emphasis on tournament support in favor of communication and outreach duties. Mike has referenced this in his current campaign. That could very well include some new means of contacting said staffers, but I don't want to make any promises while it's still in such an early stage.

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 Post subject: Re: Why join the NAF?
 Post Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2015 3:27 pm 
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No need to worry about me, Gaixo.
This all comes from a discussion about why I don't see any point in joining the NAF, that Mike and I are having.
I just pass information on what I find odd or unnecessary when having contact with the NAF.

I just think the NAF is way to static and should get into action to include all kinds of players, like the guys on FUMBBL or Cyanide-only players.
Like most organisations, there seem to be a structure that can't be adapted to new situation easily. This seems to be a normal development with organisations when they pass a certain stage of size.
Like I said, I'm not a member anymore, probably won't be in the future, but still, I think pointing out problems is somethng that a hobbyist and fan of the game should do anyway.
Just because I care, you know?

Maybe "splitting" the NAF into 3 parts (tabletop, cyanide and FUMBBL) to see what those types of players want and need and then getting all three parts back together again to create something all kinds of players can enjoy and see as worthy to be supported by membership?

I don't know, I'm just brainstorming...


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 Post subject: Re: Why join the NAF?
 Post Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2015 4:08 pm 
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Sorry to be unclear, but the "you" in my middle paragraph should be read as "one." I've been following the discussion and understand that you're just offering ideas from an under-served section of the BB community. I appreciate you doing so.

The NAF is already making attempts to engage with different types of players through the league program and online events. I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the work that has gone into those developments. There are further plans to make the NAF more inclusive, but these will also require time and effort to realize. That's as frustrating for those inside the NAF as it is for those who feel they have no place in it, believe me.

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 Post subject: Re: Why join the NAF?
 Post Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2015 4:14 pm 
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sann0638 wrote:
A full answer to that perennial question - why join the NAF? Anything missing? http://www.thenaf.net/2015/12/why-join-the-naf/
\
And sorry, but none of them even remotely entice me to join the NAF. It has nothing to do with money, it just has zero relevance to me and my playing of BB.

As FUMBBL has chosen to follow the NAF's lead on any rule changes, etc. I would be interested if there was some relevance to that, with rules and such, but as there is none, the NAF really has zero effect on me.

I do wish you the best of luck in the election though Sann, you have really reached out to all communities and maybe things will change a bit in the future. With all the big gaming tournaments online now, maybe the NAF can take a cue from that and carve out a niche.


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 Post subject: Re: Why join the NAF?
 Post Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2015 4:45 pm 
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Gaixo wrote:
The NAF is already making attempts to engage with different types of players through the league program and online events. I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the work that has gone into those developments. There are further plans to make the NAF more inclusive, but these will also require time and effort to realize. That's as frustrating for those inside the NAF as it is for those who feel they have no place in it, believe me.
Maybe that is part of the problem.
As a non-member I don't have any chance to see what's planned for the future. I don't know if you can as a member.
I think it to be more effective to let people know about what you're doing and what the progress is on these projects. Even if you discuss such ideas and projects in your forums, that still leaves those, who might want to join and support those projects, locked out because all the stuff is members only.
"Transparency" is what they call it, I think. :wink:

I really start wondering WHY I do care so much about it... :o


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 Post subject: Re: Why join the NAF?
 Post Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2015 5:25 pm 
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Yeah, I think transparency can be tough to manage because when things don't work out there's such a negative reaction. Such reaction is fair, but you can understand why the people in charge of such projects prefer to keep them confined to a select group of collaborators, at least until they're ready for real development.

EDIT: I would also note that the NAF is much more open than it was even a couple of years ago. There's surely more room for improvement, but progress has definitely been made.

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 Post subject: Re: Why join the NAF?
 Post Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2015 5:30 pm 
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Rereading my (imperfect) list, it actually seems to be more like a list of good reasons for the naf to exist. From that, it is then up to an individual if they think it should exist, rather than there being necessarily a good reason for an individual to join. A bit like taxes, I suppose.

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 Post subject: Re: Why join the NAF?
 Post Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2015 6:37 pm 
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Well, you're running for president.
How would you answer the question in the subject of this thread now?


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 Post subject: Re: Why join the NAF?
 Post Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2015 7:05 pm 
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sann0638 wrote:
Rereading my (imperfect) list, it actually seems to be more like a list of good reasons for the naf to exist. From that, it is then up to an individual if they think it should exist, rather than there being necessarily a good reason for an individual to join. A bit like taxes, I suppose.


Yep, loads of good reasons to join the NAF :D

Regash wrote:
Well, you're running for president.
How would you answer the question in the subject of this thread now?


I think the answer is already in the link, like why woul you join the NAF? Answers in the link. Well that's how I read it anyway...

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 Post subject: Re: Why join the NAF?
 Post Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2015 7:21 pm 
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If you think something like the NAF should exist, join. If not, don't.

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 Post subject: Re: Why join the NAF?
 Post Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2015 7:29 pm 
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Really?
That doesn't work for me.

Do I think something like the NAF should exist? Definitely!
Do I join? Nope, because I don't see any point for me.


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 Post subject: Re: Why join the NAF?
 Post Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2015 7:34 pm 
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I am super healthy!

Do I think the NHS should exist? Yes!

Should I pay for it? No, because I am super healthy!

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