Talk Fantasy Football

That bit has been discussed.

For better or worse, Khorne would only get the stars they have access to in BB1. I believe that means only Grashnak and Morg. (I've never seen the list above, though it looks pretty good. I think most leagues just use the Chaos stars. My league traded Lewdgrip out in favor of Helmut.)

If the apes were to somehow/someday get in, I imagine they'd have to do without their two special stars.

I presume because Lewdgrip is almost certainly a Slaanesh champion; the arch enemy of Khorne.

Regash wrote:

Glamdryn wrote:I wish the NAF would post a full 6 Star Player list for Khorne .

According to the roster I know of:

• Helmut Wulf
• Wilhelm Chaney

WHAT!!?

This just gets worse. Definitely Marmite for me.

harvestmouse wrote:I presume because Lewdgrip is almost certainly a Slaanesh champion; the arch enemy of Khorne.

That was why my league changed it, yes. Judging by past discussions on this forum, others are much less interested in using fluff to determine anything.

Gaixo wrote:Judging by past discussions on this forum, others are much less interested in using fluff to determine anything.

That's pretty obvious from people liking the "not-Khorne at all" Khorne team.

Darkson wrote:That's pretty obvious from people liking the "not-Khorne at all" Khorne team.

Don't knock 'em until you've played 'em. Take some warhammer models and proxy up a Khorne team, grab a six pack and a buddy, play a rookie or tournament style Khorne roster. Non-league, doesn't count, just for fun.

For the record I'm talking about this roster:


I think you'll find (at least, my experience has been) that much Frenzy to be game-changing. Not game-breaking, for or against, but the team plays like no other team in the game. Not even Norse. Caging becomes problematic, because you can't control where your players will end up. Frenzy taketh away, but Frenzy also giveth. I think the key is using Frenzy constructively, not only to try to Surf opponents (nobody, NOBODY, sets up in the sideline against Khorne. Well, except Pro Elves) but also to get extra blocks and especially to use the extra movement to get into position without dodging. It's an interesting and challenging race to play. Rewarding once you embrace Frenzy, extremely frustrating until then.
Dode, if you're reading this, congrats. I expected to hate this team but changed my mind after playing them.

I think it's telling that the worst criticism that gets leveled against this roster is that "They're a lot worse at melee than Warhammer Khorne". And it's true. But other than that, they're a fun, challenging, absolutely-not-broken race which lead to hectic, challenging matches. Know those Orc vs Dwarf matches which involve 16 turns of each team taking one blitz, not getting the ball past midfield, and ending in a 0-0 tie (0-0 Cas)? Khorne is the exact opposite of that. For better or for worse.


... Anyway. I have much less experience with Bretonnians than with Khorne. Hearsay feedback from BB2 players is that they fit well in the game without being close to OP. I'd love to hear firsthand from someone who's played them (or against them).

rolo wrote:Don't knock 'em until you've played 'em.

Probably an interesting roster, for say a Savage Orc team, but as I intimated above, the fluff is important for me and that is NOT a Khorne team. If anything, it's less Khorne-like than the standard Chaos roster.
As such, I've not interest in trying it, especially not in a TT setting.

Cool, get someone nearby to model you some amazing Savage Orcs, paint yourself in woad, and go wild!

I bring da boyz, who brings the blood?

More green frenzy:

Background and story elements are important, but they are also malleable. We're dealing with a fantasy world where war has been replaced by an ancient sport, there's global peace, of sorts. What effect would this have had on Khorne, the God of War? Would he be weakened in such a world, would his followers be weakened?
There also have to be some limits on how much fluff can dictate gameplay. We accept that the armies of Warhammer have been replaced by the teams of Blood Bowl, so it follows that there would likely be Blood Bowl teams formed by followers of the Chaos Gods, including Khorne. Should they be ultra-killy? Possibly, from a fluff perspective, but definitely not from a gameplay view.

Darkson wrote:

rolo wrote:Don't knock 'em until you've played 'em.

Probably an interesting roster, for say a Savage Orc team, but as I intimated above, the fluff is important for me and that is NOT a Khorne team. If anything, it's less Khorne-like than the standard Chaos roster.
As such, I've not interest in trying it, especially not in a TT setting.

Yup, you totally missed the point Rolo. I don't think many people would knock it as an fun to play and possibly innovative roster.............but it's just not Khorne. Making a Khorne roster that was true to the roots, would have been so massively unpopular..........that as a theme choice in a CPOMB environment, it couldn't succeed.

Why is that not Khorne? What is un-Khorne about it?

No Frenzy on bloodletters. That's it, for me.

Vanguard's post deserves replying to. I for one intend to with a bit more time.

Baxx wrote:Why is that not Khorne? What is un-Khorne about it?

The good point
I really like the frenzy theme it really works. Personally I think they should have made the whole team frenzied.

Frenzy as a skill is a Warhammer translation. It replicates 2 functions. One moving towards your opponent whether you want to or not. Two following up on attacks and keep on attacking. It was designed to replicate characters or races that suffered from frenzy (frenzy is a negative in warhammer, but there are positive points given to units that suffer from frenzy).

I think the Khorne list would suffer from Frenzy.

The bad points
Unrealistic units. If you're going to rip from Warhammer you have to try and replicate what that creature is in Bloodbowl. For example the Trollslayer. Dauntless was a skill added purely to replicate Trollslayer trait. 3rd ed frenzy possibly too. Describing a positional as best you can for that game.

Bloodletters a distinctly badass. A bloodthirster doesn't have a parallel. The Bloodthirster's origins come from the Balrog..........before copyright issues materialised. There is no creature currently in the Warhammer world as big and as a bad as a bloodthirster. A bloodletter is a rival to a Chaos Warrior in bad assness. Downgrading both of them physically to something far less significant doesn't work. The only way to downgrade either of these would be a special demon rule.

The theme of Khorne
Khorne is the blood god. The god of killing, the god of blood, the god of skulls. Collecting skulls to make a throne. However Chaos as a normal roster in BB has also been given this theme. To some extent being one of the most famous post 3rd ed famous chaos teams has been 'Khorne's Killers'. The theme being of Chaos that "Winning doesn't matter, it's the killing that matters" Which in reality is Khorne's theme.

So the game plan of Khorne has already been explored, and the skills to explore that given to Chaos. This however proved unpopular. So Khorne the most killy of Chaos gods was given a watered down theme on Chaos and Chaos Pact and..........Nurgle and Skaven. So what is the theme of Khorne? Going crazy and frenzying everywhere? Well that was the theme given to the Norse beer swillers.

What is the point in having a Khorne list, with richly created history and theme only to take a small part of that because it would be broken if you didn't. Why not take a dwarf list and just have the beards but not the AV or S access because that might break things.

I'd like to see a good Khorne roster, but as a choice for a new team it was ridiculously dumb, and shows Cyanide's lack of experience. Chaos already was unpopular; giving Khorne the roster it deserved would have been 3 times as unpopular.

However, the core of the roster does play and is well designed (to play well). It wouldn't take that much to make this roster palatable for all. It really wouldn't.