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 Post subject: Re: NAF PRESIDENTIAL ELECTIONS 2017
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 10:02 am 
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The dissenters in every group are usually more vocal.


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 Post subject: Re: NAF PRESIDENTIAL ELECTIONS 2017
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 10:44 am 
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Well, I am also not non-GW, and I also only play BB; but some points that I have seen been raised:

- The cease and desist-letters and the dismantling of BBRC. Clearly they are evil.
- How they ruined codex something something in Warhammer. Clearly they are evil.
- The "botched" BB16 with crap like Weeping Daggers and mistakes such as Crak and Crumbleberry. Clearly they are idiots.
- They abandonded our game for a decade. Clearly they are not to be trusted.
- NAF are not allowed to make more lovely block dice. Cleary they don`t care for their player base.

Persuasive argument? Perhaps not, but I guess this is one of those things that comes down to confidence based on gut feeling, more than rational assessment.

Personally I was happily surprised to see BB16 bring so little change (yes, I am getting old), but I still fear they will go Age of Sigmar on us at some point and destroy the game and the community.


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 Post subject: Re: NAF PRESIDENTIAL ELECTIONS 2017
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 11:12 am 
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First, the world is not white or black. Not being PRO-GW does not imply being anti-GW.

On the other hand, I am delighted that GW has decided to return to BloodBowl, it's great, this decision is bringing many new players, you see them in the tournaments every day, and that's great. In addition, its low price policy has caused many brands to lower prices to cover this new market. That is also great, those are things that GW has done and they are very good.

Unfortunately there are other things that they are doing that I do not like. Rules barely tested and randomly modified (this has been recognized by people who have been in the phases of internal tests and who knew the game for years), multiple places where they are releasing rules without any criteria and without a compendium where you can find a complete manual with which to go to play. Awfull translations to other languages. Cheap equipment, but incomplete, with repeated miniatures and no possibility of finishing a full roster (someone has already seen the famous blister of 2 black orcs and 2 blitzers? Or the human equivalent?) Of course, it is clear that for them it is a business , and they carry it as they want, because it is their business.

Now, the NAF is an association of players, for the NAF the BloofBowl, or the Fantasy Football, it is NOT a business, it is an entertainment. The NAF must be with the players who intend to have fun and have a good time with this game. Therefore, I do not see the "obligation" or the haste to adapt to anything that GW sells to continue with its business. Of course, the CRP is not perfect, and there are changes that GW has published and that have been adopted that were asking for years ago (human catchers). The funny thing is that before being published by GW there would be no hurry to adopt those changes and suddenly those and all the others are adopted from one day to the next, without any type of study, and there were voices that said that some were clearly harmful to the game.

What is my position? For it is simple, that what is published is evaluated, as any modification of rules that can be proposed by the community and that is incorporated into a compendium of rules when it has been seen that benefits the game, and if not, discarded (or at least be left as optional). That a single document of rules for NAF events be maintained. If it is with the consent of GW better, but you can change all the names on which they are copyrighted and publish it as Fantasy Football rules.

Why do not I stand? Because I do not have the time, nor the group of people who want to stand with me to be able to do something worthwhile.
And since whoever stands does not represent what I want for the NAF, I can not do anything but vote blank, or not vote, as 90% of active members do.

PD: Sorry for my english, hope you can get the meaning of what I try to say.


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 Post subject: Re: NAF PRESIDENTIAL ELECTIONS 2017
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 1:03 pm 
Legend
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The most important thing for me is ease of getting a game, leave the "important" business of counting squares and column defenses to the pros at the Euros. That 1% of Blood Bowl is obviously very important to the few people who play that way, but for the rest of us who just want a laugh its better to just pick up the game at the local shop and play.
The rules work, who cares, let the dice decide. Cheers easy.

Agree with what Purplegoo said....

Voted for Driesfield, after reading both threads. Much more positive answers, obviously Gaxio has been around a lot longer but most of them answers sounded like excuses. Lets get some fresh air in there, out with the old and in with the new.

:orc:

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 Post subject: Re: NAF PRESIDENTIAL ELECTIONS 2017
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 3:32 pm 
Ex-Mega Star, now just a Super Star
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Hi viyullas, thanks for the reply. Don't worry, your English was very clear.

I see now that we're not in the area of being anti-GW per se (an area I found difficult to understand because of arguments such as those straume outlined; I agree with him that these are not logical, reasoned criticisms), but in the area of wanting more / something different from the NAF in response to BB2016. I now read your original post not as 'I don't want a pro-GW president', but as 'I want a president that is more reflective and does not accept GW change as a matter of course'. Fair? I think your points come under two headings for me, firstly 'stuff about how GW are marketing and selling BB2016 we might not like', and secondly 'the NAF's philosophical response to BB2016 (or lack of) so far'.

Under the first heading comes stuff like selling incomplete teams in boxes, effectively selling us a BB subscription if we want to stay current by releasing the rules in a piecemeal fashion and translating the rules poorly (apparently, I take your word for that). We cannot reproduce the rules for ourselves, much as we'd like to. At worst it's a lawsuit, at best it's a destroyed relationship, I think you should forget that ever happening under any form of words. We will not and should not challenge that revenue stream. GW must know better than us how to sell minis. They must be working on the translation thing. Practically, day to day, I feel there is little the NAF can do in these areas, and they shouldn't have more than a notional impact on how we feel about GW.

The philosophical point is more difficult, and that's perhaps why the NAF have so far been reactionary and have avoided the issue rather than addressing it. I, like you, would like more structure to our response. I don't think a lightning fast document detailing the rules that hit shelves yesterday and how they are mandatory in two months without wider context is the ideal way of going forward. I think it leaves members such as yourself thinking we're too pro-GW, members like me thinking we're not looking at the bigger picture, and casual members that don't keep up confused. What I'd like to see is an expanded version of what Lordillo has been talking about - an annual rules document from the NAF where we have looked at everything that has arrived from GW in the previous 12 months and decided what we're adopting. Perhaps we can communicate it in October for a January activation, leaving a couple of months for community feedback, that sort of thing. However, what I think that idea also needs is an overarching plan. What do we want to get to at the end of BB2016? Is it our intention to be playing BB2016 unless GW release ST5 Wardancers? Are we being more choosy than that with what comes along, using our own rules sub-committee? Are we intending to retain CRP elements such as Glart Jr. even if he doesn't appear in BB2016, or are we moving to just his dad? I think a communicated strategy would fix a few of the issues you're referring to and build confidence with the membership. I think my prior post indicates where I am with that. We're a BB fan club. Unless they do something that ruins it, we should probably be playing BB, lest we become dinosaurs, no? I guess what you / we want is a process.

Just a final point (I appreciate I've rambled enough, sorry!) on the rules changes we've seen - are they not all pretty inconsequential for NAF tournaments, so far? straume bought up Weeping Dagger and Grak and Crumbleberry, well, Weeping Dagger is trivial for anyone, let alone for us (if, I admit, a bit daft). G&C were promo items, not stars in the rules. If they were 20 k and AG 7 it wouldn't be an issue for us (or for anyone who chooses not to buy them), but they've been revised and are now fine for anyone that wants to use them. I'm yet to see anything come out of BB2016 that the NAF should nope or even think about noping - what is it your group are worried about? You note the rules aren't sufficiently playtested, well, no version of the rules ever have been, sadly. Comes with the territory.

Anyway. Enough. I think it's an interesting area of discussion, and one for our new president to (hopefully) make some progress with!

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 Post subject: Re: NAF PRESIDENTIAL ELECTIONS 2017
 Post Posted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 9:39 am 
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Just one thing... The NAF is NOT a fan club, is a players association. It sounds very different for me.


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 Post subject: Re: NAF PRESIDENTIAL ELECTIONS 2017
 Post Posted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 10:47 am 
Ex-Mega Star, now just a Super Star
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Sure, fair enough. In a discussion like this, that might have been a pseudo-synonym too far. I think practically we may be a little bit of both (and other things, no?), but strictly speaking, you're right.

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 Post subject: Re: NAF PRESIDENTIAL ELECTIONS 2017
 Post Posted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 8:44 pm 
Kommissar Enthusiasmoff
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Gaixo wins!

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 Post subject: Re: NAF PRESIDENTIAL ELECTIONS 2017
 Post Posted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 11:23 pm 
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Official result:

Gaixo: 271
Driesfield: 159

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 Post subject: Re: NAF PRESIDENTIAL ELECTIONS 2017
 Post Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 9:29 pm 
Legend
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Congrats Gaixo.
You'll land it next time Driesfield.
Thanks both of you for standing :)

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