Goblins - cut or not?

[Sword of Solkan]

Hi chaps,

I'm wondering whether to replace a couple of players from my Goblin team:

- Troll with Guard and Stand Firm. Both skills are useful, but I'm wondering whether they're worth the 40k TV or whether to buy a new Troll and hope for a double.
- Goblin with Wrestle and Jump Up. The Wrestle's definitely useful - but is he worth 90k TV?

Thoughts?

[babass]

i would keep all 3.

[Pedda]

It depends on your league, the rest of the team and your treasury

[rolo]

I can't think of a format where I wouldn't want those players on my team. My advice is to keep them.

[Sword of Solkan]

Cheers, guys.

Btw, the Guard/Stand Firm is on the same troll.

[sann0638]

Never cut uninjured players!

[Pedda]

I can't think of a format where I wouldn't want those players on my team. My advice is to keep them.

I'm not so sure. On an Orc team, yes. But in a goblin team?
If I had the cash, I'd probably try again, hoping for a double.
Also, 40k is almost a bribe.

[Sword of Solkan]

I can't think of a format where I wouldn't want those players on my team. My advice is to keep them.

I'm not so sure. On an Orc team, yes. But in a goblin team?
If I had the cash, I'd probably try again, hoping for a double.
Also, 40k is almost a bribe.

Those were my thoughts too. 50k (Wrestle and Jump up) is a bribe. 40k (Guard and Stand Firm) is also likely to give a bribe, depending on the TV difference.

Don't get me wrong - they're all useful skills, I'm just thinking about TV bloat.

Is a Goblin with Wrestle and Jump up really worth 90k?

[MattDakka]

I keep Goblins with either double skill, +MA, AG 4.
I keep Goblins with 1 regular skill, but fire those with 2 regular ones.
About the Troll: you could wait for the third skill roll and see what you get, then fire him if it's not a double.
Consider Piling On on Trolls, it can be useful.

[Pedda]

I'd also keep the wrestle jump up goblin, but 15 SPP on a troll takes time.
Getting 6 SPP should be quicker and a troll starts with mighty blow, which should help.

I'd rather give break tackle to my goblin trolls than guard and stand firm.

[Vinz D.]

Consider Piling On on Trolls, it can be useful.

They can be useful... but I'd rather have a stupid troll standing up, then a non-stupid one that has to stand up again.
True, Piling On is nice to stack up on SPPs, but whether that's a useful play on Goblin teams is something I'm not sold on. I believe Trolls are for Goblin teams more useful as mobile roadblocks, rather then lying down to score that extra SPP, which suddenly leaves quite a bit of room for your opposition.

I'd rather give break tackle to my goblin trolls than guard and stand firm.

+1 to that.
Not that Guard and Stand Firm are bad skills, but Break Tackle makes them mobile enough to ensure they can move along with your Goblins and not be kept in the back by expendable players from the opposing team.

[MattDakka]

True, Piling On is nice to stack up on SPPs, but whether that's a useful play on Goblin teams is something I'm not sold on. I believe Trolls are for Goblin teams more useful as mobile roadblocks, rather then lying down to score that extra SPP, which suddenly leaves quite a bit of room for your opposition.

Of course you don't have to use Piling On always, you have to consider the situation and your team position, and if you can afford to do it.
Since Goblins are going to be outnumbered you need to have a good chance of removing opposing players.
About Stand Firm: have you ever tried to play near the side lines with Goblins?
You can use the Fanatic to push/chainpush opponent players in a position to be crowdsurfed.
In this situation having 2 Stand Firm Guard Trolls is very valuable.

[Vinz D.]

Of course one considers the time and situation to use Piling On, but the sole purpose of the skill remains to be to boost the SPPs, and gain the next skill faster. It doesn't make Piling On a bad choice for (Goblin) Trolls, but not the first choice I'd pick, which would remain to be Break Tackle. Then again, the proper skill choice will (in my opinion) always depend a lot on playing style, the skills on other players, and even then remains to be subjective.
I have never really gotten to the point in my matches, where I was playing near the sidelines, my Trolls were actually there and my Fanatic stopped playing Dance Dance Revolution. (The discussion I have with that guy regarding the definition of direction will never end). That being said, the potential with Guard and Stand Firm for crowd-surfs is definitely there.

Personally, my choice of (normal) skills for Trolls would be Break Tackle > Stand Firm > Guard > Piling On... but that is due to the manner in which I play my Goblin team.

[rolo]

Piling On isn't *just* to farm SPP, it has the pleasant side effect of removing opposing players, leaving your opponent at a numbers disadvantage!

(Or maybe just "less of a numbers advantage", the rest of the team is Goblins after all).

I don't take Piling On for trolls on a Goblin team (I'd consider it for Orcs though). I suspect that we have a playstyle difference here. I use my trolls to protect the Goblins, either as a solid wall between my opponents and the Gobs, or just by running up and tagging two opposing ST3 players. On defense, if they can move, they just move in front of the opposing cage. Or if they can't reach the cage, just pin 2-3 opponents. Obviously they need to be standing (and not stupid) for any of that to work - which means no piling on, and honestly not even activating them if they're already in a decent position. So I look for skills which can make them irritating even if they're just standing there - Guard is perfect (two Trolls with Guard, standing next to each other, is tough for anyone to deal with), Stand Firm helps too. I've never actually had two trolls with both skills at the same time, but that sounds less like "fire them!" and more like "perfect!".