Daemon teams and on pitch spellcasters query

DaImp · Post by **DaImp** » Thu Dec 11, 2003 8:43 am

Guys, I have a question regarding the Daemon teams and the On Pitch Spellcaster rules (both from Galak's site). A player in my league is looking to play a Slaanesh Daemon team but feels the rules for the On Pitch Spellcasters severely hamper the effectiveness of this team. His argument follows below. What i want to know is: does he have a point and should the rules for Daemons needing a spellcaster on the pitch be altered? or are the rules balanced already for a reason he has over looked? My view after reading his email is that things do seem very stacked against a Daemon team, but weighed against that is the fact that Daemon's are very dangerous. And as I can't really form a solid opinion either way I want some arguments from others on the topic.

On the Pitch Spellcasters for Daemon teams.

I personally feel this is a little harsh. (not just because I still wanna play Slaanesh, but let's look at the facts)
Daemonic Aura says that no Daemon may be on the pitch unless a Spellcaster is on the pitch as well. If the spellcaster leaves the pitch, so do all Daemons. Seeing that a Spellcaster suffers a -1 on AV, he is more likely to be target of your opponents malice. This also presents a problem in that you have the following options for your spellcaster:
- Beastman - 110000 gold - AV 7.
- Chaos Warrior - 150000 gold - AV 8.
It makes more sense to go with the Chaos Warrior - the beastman is too easy to hurt. But the Warrior is also incredibly expensive, and you have to have a Spellcaster to field the daemons, otherwise you might as well just play ordinary Chaos.

Second, if the Spellcaster dies, all daemons die immediately. This is potentially devastating for a daemonic team (especially since the Spellcaster is going to be your opponent's number one target!) Such an event could potentially cripple a team financially.
Third, Whilst their AV is fixed, ANY casualty suffered by a Daemon means it dies outright (this I can live with though)
Fourth, Greater Daemons roll after each drive or half - on a 1 or 2, they miss the rest of the game.
Fifth, Daemons are really expensive - for one to die could bankrupt a player.
In essence, what I'm saying is this - having your Daemons "linked" to your Spellcaster is a tad on the unfair side. Undead teams are raised by their head coach. Daemon teams should be the same. It is way too easy to cripple a Daemon team, merely by picking on the Spellcaster (who in all honesty, probably doesn't stand a chance cos your opponent is probably going to surround him with roughnecks, and beat on him till he dies)

I think the rules are fine as they stand, but I think the rule that the Spellcaster has to be on the pitch is terrible. They should not be linked IMO. The head coach should be responsible for the Daemons being here - they already have enough negatraits to balance them out against other teams.

To illustrate my point - you manage to field a Spellcaster Warrior (150000gp), a Greater Daemon (180000gp) and two lesser Daemons (80000gp each) That's four players to the value of 490000gp (thats half your starting money) - which all go down the drain if the Spellcaster gets creamed. I should imagine most opponents are gonna steer clear of the daemons, and just pound the poor spellcaster - so in effect, with the current "Linked" rule - a Daemon team is actually a waste of time.

Anyways, thats just my take on things... what you think?

McDeth · Post by **McDeth** » Thu Dec 11, 2003 2:02 pm

On the basis that the Greater Daemon is so overpowered, it needs a rule to bring it down to earth, that being the Linked effect. Seems to me that the Slannesh coach wants the best of both worlds. A virtually unstoppable monster, with nothing to keep it in check

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Thu Dec 11, 2003 2:11 pm

My thoughts are this:

You guys haven't checked my website out lately have you? (this is meant in a friendly jabbing of ribs type of comment)

http://www.midgardbb.com/GWTeams/Slaanesh.html

After a long discussion with the Daemon coaches, the Daemonic Aura trait was dropped from all the lesser Daemons and now they are just Wizard Linked. IE you need a wizard for them to take the pitch, but they no longer die from any CAS and they don't die if the spellcaster dies.

So his example is bogus.

And the Keeper is an ST 7 monster with CLAW for pete's sake. That type of player needs MASSIVE negatives to keep him in check. Most teams cannot take down a player like the Keeper so a good coach will target the spellcaster as a way of getting the Keeper off the pitch. That's game balance and I'd hang my hat on the revised MBBL2 Deamon teams being balanced.

Woody/Deathwing recently killed off his own Spellcaster through a failed Khorne's Gift spell which killed off his Bloodthrister also. Did he bemoan it at all .... nope ... he fully agreed it was a risk of running the team and using that massively powerful spell.

I think the first thing your coach needs to do is revisit the rules on blood-bowl.net as we already tweaked them and consider moving your league rules to them. I very sure that these rules are fine and balanced from almost years now of playtesting Daemon teams in the MBBL2 and MBBL3 leagues.

Galak

DaImp · Post by **DaImp** » Thu Dec 11, 2003 5:39 pm

I didn't know about the rule change so thanks for the heads up Galak

And my reply to him was actually very similar to what you expressed so I guess I did the right thing

I will update the Daemon team rules as per the new rules on the site. I agree that the Keeper is a nasty piece of work and needs a serious flaw to keep him balanced so I am sure that the new tweaked rules will satisfy everyone.