human catchers...st 2

Mattchaos · Post by **Mattchaos** » Sun Feb 13, 2005 2:58 pm

Yes, that's why I prefer the values used by 2nd edition (normal humans were 3, strong ones were 4, Black orks should have been 5 and big guys were 7)
Even if weak, fast and small humans like the ones in rugby are weaker than the big ones, they are stronger than a "normal" human, and can't be compared to a goblin or an halfling.
And the strongest humans can't be compared to Black orks, that's why all humans should have the same strength (at the beginning of their career).

Colin · Post by **Colin** » Sun Feb 13, 2005 3:23 pm

Yes, 2ed ST scale worked much better, but what can you do when 3ed went to 1d6 rolls instead of the 2d6 rolls in 2ed, so all the scale had to be 1-6 to fit thus making for all players of any race a bit too similar comparativley. The only way to change that would be to change the die from d6 to maybe d8 or d10, which would be better IMO, but we all know that's never going to happen.

Personally, I think that if human catchers are ST2, there's no way any elf catchers should be ST3, but they had to do that so that there would be a little more differences in the rosters (as I said, smaller scale in stats result in too little difference between players).

Darkson · Post by **Darkson** » Sun Feb 13, 2005 9:45 pm

Plus for all those comparing Goblins to human catchers, according to WFB fluff (eek! Shock Horror! He mentioned the WFB game!) Goblins are as strong as humans, so maybe all humans, elves orcs and dwarfs should be ST2 except for some positions?

J/K!!!!

Munkey · Post by **Munkey** » Mon Feb 14, 2005 12:06 am

IIRC in 2nd edition there were Gobbo Linemen that were as strong as Humans.

hollowone · Post by **hollowone** » Mon Feb 14, 2005 4:14 pm

I also don't like Str 2 Human Catchers.

Let's compare them to Str 3 Catchers from other races:

Amazon Catcher 70000 6 3 3 7 Catch, Dodge G A

Lion Warrior 90000 8 3 4 7 Catch G A

Dropping Dodge is pretty much necessary if the Catcher is going to keep M8 and Str 3. So I'd suggest the following:

"New" Human Catcher 70000 8 3 3 7 Catch G A

Effectively makes 'em pseudo-Lion Warriors. It'd need some play-testing, though.

Edit: Maybe 7337 is more balanced...

absent1 · Post by **absent1** » Mon Feb 14, 2005 9:44 pm

lol, well, so much for the feedback, even with str 3 catchers our human player refuses to play the team again next season cause he is so sick of being pummelled...

duff · Post by **duff** » Mon Feb 14, 2005 10:31 pm

I've wondered wether part of the problem with human teams is that doing everything adequetly isn't as much fun as doing something really well. Their blitzers are cool but compared to a witchelf or a trollslayer, they don't exactly sparkle, and the're the most exciting players on the team, the linemen and throwers define average and the catchers are weaker less agile versions of the elvish equivalent.

Munkey · Post by **Munkey** » Tue Feb 15, 2005 12:55 am

My problem is that even with Blodge I can't keep my Catchers on the pitch (and alive!) long enough for them to be effective or even distract the defence. Maybe that's just me though.

Still after losing/tieing all 4 of my starting games at the end of last season my team is doing very well this season so maybe they are ok after all. I would have liked to have heard how ST3 Catchers got on in another league though but I guess now we won't find out.

Mattchaos · Post by **Mattchaos** » Tue Feb 15, 2005 1:23 pm

On my island, where we do some creations for other leagues, we have created some alternative human rosters.
None of them includes strength 2 player, except the one mixing humans, halflings and catapult.
One example is :

0-12 tylean 7 3 3 7 none 50K G
0-2 thrower 7 3 3 7 pass, nerves of still, sure hand 120K G+P+A
0-4 catchers 7 3 3 7 catch, dodge 90K G+A
0-2 hired killers 7 3 3 8 tackle, strip ball 100K G+S
0-1 swamp troll

Rerolls 50k
Apo : yes
1 monster max

Skummy · Post by **Skummy** » Tue Feb 15, 2005 1:45 pm

Interesting team. Tackle/Strip Ball is a bit of an odd combination.

Overall at a glance I'd say the team is less effective than the regular humans.

Mattchaos · Post by **Mattchaos** » Tue Feb 15, 2005 2:05 pm

the goal is not to have effective teams, in fact new teams are better appreciated if they are a little less effective than the official ones.
That's why most of our rosters are designed to be just under the old ones.
One day i'll post more of them, because we have discuss of something like 100 different rosters, (all in french) and some of them are really developped.

Humans are big part of our discussions, I wuld say at least 40 ideas of rosters, but as far as I remember none of them includes humans with strength equal to 2.

JaM · Post by **JaM** » Thu Feb 17, 2005 1:27 pm

Maybe dont start in a league with catchers, but get them as soon as you can protect them when they are on the other side.
I think that with block as a first skill they are not that easy to put down... Then again, I still have to do "good" with them on any tournament !!

absent1 · Post by **absent1** » Fri Feb 18, 2005 3:19 am

but with str 2, av 7, and only agi 3 for dodging (which means they fail as much as a 2 die block with no rerolls, like a big guy), well, they are much like a gobo, they are far to crunchy, our human team can only take 2 catchers ever cause the catchers stink so bad.

plasmoid · Post by **plasmoid** » Fri Feb 18, 2005 8:22 am

I think they're a lot better than you make them out to be.
IMO MA8 is very good.
Cheers
Martin

Brokje · Post by **Brokje** » Fri Feb 18, 2005 8:43 am

Agree with plasmoid here, if they cannot reach you they cannot hit you... And I never send my catchers out alone, usually they are accompanied by a blitzer. With block and sidestep they become very annoying, and can go near the sidelines.