GalakStarscraper wrote:
Chaos Dwarf Slave Team:
1 Ogre
1 Troll
1 Minotaur
2 Goblin
1 Orc Thrower
2 Chaos Dwarf Blocker
1 Bull Centaur
7 Hobgoblin
yeah, but is that really a chaos dwarf team? i thnk the conflict of opinion here is not so much mechanical as conceptual... some prefer to think of chaos dwarfs in terms of a handful of slavedrivers and their orcoid minoions, some like to think of them as corrupted dwarfs....
i just miss the good old days of 2e when chaos dwarfs were chaos dwarfs and hobgoblins were comic relief...
i suppose if you're going to keep an existing cd roster and add a cd slaver pact roster, that's one thing, calling the pact roster the new replacement cd rostert just makes me shake my head in frustration yet again...
Lustrian:
2 Skink, 1 Saurus, 1 Kroxigor, 1 Ogre, 1 Norse Thrower, 1 Amazon Blitzer, 9 Amazon Linemen .... I still like it.
again, mechanical vs. conceptual... it's not neccessarilly going to break the game, but i don't happen to think that these races would play nice, even if we're tossing wfb fluff out on its ear, which i'm happy to do, i just prefer to think of amazons as being a bit too bitchy to play nice with anything and lizardmen as insular.... but then, that's just fluff, so who gives a rats ass...
The 2nd edition Creepers team was 10 goblins, 2 Storm Vermin, 2 Throwers, 2 Linerats. Hate to disagree with you Lucien, but my version is not that much different than what was in the 2nd edition book at least to my eyes (the 2nd edition team was what I used as the template) ... add in physical skill access for the Goblins from 2nd edition and I think this team is a fair representation of the 2nd edition team.
how is that, you're missing 5 of the 6 position players! no, the creepers are still, as always, better off with their own unique basic roster.... and it's not like imitators to the creepers are thick on the ground... as far as i can remember there are no persistant references to this mixture in the bb fluff, the creepers are a one-of-a-kind team, why even bother with a roster of any sort outsiode of representing the famous teams, and if you're doing that, then you can do whatever the heck you want...
either way, the pact approach to the creepers just seems to be a class-a kludge...
I don't agree with it beyond these 4, but I think these all had potential.
potential to do what, though? potential to be interesting and possibly balanced mechanics for playing mixed-race teams? well, yeah, they probably do... but potential to be a way to represent the chaos all-stars, the underworld creepers, the chaos dwarfs, and the heros of law? in that regard the results vary from moderate to not-at-all...
and that, then is what it comes down to... if (and that's a big neon 'if' with sparklers and a spokesmodel) this is the best and most effective way to achieve intergrated teams, then a few long-held _concepts_ might have to take it on the chin in the name of consistently applying a good and noble rule... but i'm not of the opinion that mixed-race teams should or need to be a part of the game at all in the first place! if your roster has holes, deal with it, play another team, or quit... in the end, the only reason for mixed-race teams as standard team choices is quite simply to give unimaginative players the ability to cover faults in their play of teams they aren't really suited to playing anyway...
if someone came to me with converted and painted miniatures in hand and said "look at this team! can i please play the chaos all-stars" i'd say "gee, timmy, that's a hell of a modelling job and i really respect your reaffirmation of the history and character of bloodbowl, let's sit down and work you up a one-of-a-kind, as-balanced-as-possible roster to represent this team" (in fact, when someone once came to me with a lovingly rendered dark elf/skeleton 'necromancer' team i did essentially just this and it was fun for everyone involved)... if, on the other hand, timmy were to show up with his 3e chaos team, which he plays because he likes to hurt people and gloat, but he's having trouble winning games because he can't do anything on the ball, so he gets a couple of dark elves, does nothing to change the models in any way, and then dips them in black paint (the "paint job" of the rest of the team) and expects me to give him the mechanics to cover the failures in his own character and ability to play the game, i'll most likely wither him with sarcasm and obcenities...
that's what it comes down to for me, pacts aren't a good thing in my eyes, and the specific teams or concepts that they strive in some cases to represent should be treated as unique in gameplay as they are in fluff...
but then, that's fluff, so who gives a rats ass...
