A Trait to counter Tackle

[Thadrin]

You and your crazy american slang.

Who are you calling American? British and damn well proud of it. (Even though I don't live there anymore)

No I wasn't kidding. I think I don't like tackle because it is the only skill that does counter another skill. I guess block kind of counters block, but most skills allows your player to do something as apposed to countering your opponent. It is frustrating to not be allowed to use a skill on your team roster.

But thats the Dwarf thing: denial and defence. Dwarfs are MEANT to be the anti-elves. If you're really relying on one skill THAT MUCH then youneed to look at expanding your skills. Try Sidestep on a couple of guys. I know from experience exactly how irritating it is. In my experience the basic elf play is blitz a small hole in the defence and then send through a whole gang of guys, while denying the opponent - dwarfs or whoever they may be - blocks by simply not ending up next to them.

I think if the dwarves can do it to me, I should at least in some small way do it back to them. Not a great argument, mildly petulent, but there it is. Anyway, most people think dodge is so great because it affects the block dice. I'm just after the reroll, so I'd suggest the trait just counters that aspect of tackle. At least that leaves the dwarves more than they would leave me.

OK. I want my dwarfs to be able to take dodge and everything. I want my Chaos Warriors to get Block all round. There are lots of things we want, but you don't get. I thought that was the point. YOU CAN REROLL A FAILED DODGE EVEN IF YOUR OPPONENT HAS TACKLE. Thats what team rerolls are for. Its a fairly simple concept. Woodies get plenty just having AG4 and players who start with Blodge. They certainly do NOT need anything else.

[Grumbledook]

He is playing with amazons aint he?

[Thadrin]

He mentioned both. 'zons have a little more complaint, but they get starting Blodgers (4 of them no less), all their players are one skill from Blodge, and they have dirt cheap rerolls in addition to 40k rerolls. Jeez, you can't have everything.

[Ramorr]

You have strip ball, sure hands counters that

I'd forgotten about sure hands & strip ball. I guess sure hands is okay because no one is going to have a team where everyone has sure hands.

Who are you calling American? British and damn well proud of it. (Even though I don't live there anymore)

Whoops my mistake. How's life in Sweden then?

In my experience the basic elf play is blitz a small hole in the defence and then send through a whole gang of guys, while denying the opponent - dwarfs or whoever they may be - blocks by simply not ending up next to them.

Talking about elf tactics, you have to dodge away from the dwarves standing next to you in order to not be standing next to them in their turn. BTW, yeah I know about sidestep, best thing to use against those frenzing trollslayers.

OK. I want my dwarfs to be able to take dodge and everything. I want my Chaos Warriors to get Block all round. There are lots of things we want, but you don't get. I thought that was the point.

Dwarves can get dodge on a double, same as I'm suggesting for my trait. Chaos warriors can all get block on their first roll. I'm not sure I get your point.

YOU CAN REROLL A FAILED DODGE EVEN IF YOUR OPPONENT HAS TACKLE. Thats what team rerolls are for. Its a fairly simple concept. Woodies get plenty just having AG4 and players who start with Blodge. They certainly do NOT need anything else.

I'm not suggesting woodies need it, but oh.. the satisfaction of being able to raise the archer's fingers at the dwarf teams, if just with one player. I can dream, at least.

Or alternatively suggest it as a house rule on talk bloodbowl and liven a few short minutes of my life.

[Zombie]

Zombie can i make babies with your sisters?

Definite no for one of them, as she already has two. The other one, well ask her yourself!

[Zombie]

It is frustrating to not be allowed to use a skill on your team roster.

Ramorr, you don't get it at all. Don't give dodge to any of your players. That way, it will be frustrating for the dwarves not to be allowed to use a skill on their roster!

Tackle is very weak at the moment and doesn't need a skill to cancel it. Besides, it already does: lack of dodge cancels it.

[manusate]

Wise words, Zombie.

[Darkson]

Ramorr, you don't get it at all. Don't give dodge to any of your players. That way, it will be frustrating for the dwarves not to be allowed to use a skill on their roster!

Um, he also talking about Amazons.

[Zombie]

Well in that case, but teams lose a skill. It's just as if amazons didn't have dodge and dwarves didn't have tackle. Nobody is better off and there's no reason for anybody to go crying about it.

[Mestari]

The fact remains that the most mobile players of the dwarves don't have tackle. If they field all their position players, there are only 5 tacklers on field! Exploit that.
And the 2+ dodges area easy even if they don't have dodge to back it up. And there are TRR's. But I'm repeating previous posters now.

The point is, if you're simply frustrated because someone else beats you, don't come crying for rules changes unless you can clearly show that the changes you are requesting are required for game-balance reasons. And as said earlier, this is the first case I've seen someone complain about tackle.

Only reason provided so far in this thread has been the frustration caused by not succeeding every time when attempting "dodge 'em all away and don't let dem uffers block ya"-plays.

[Ramorr]

"you're simply frustrated because someone else beats you"

Not quite true, both games that led to this post were score draws at one all. It is not that I need a lesson in how to play dwarves, otherwise I'd be posting on the tactics board.

My point is simply that I would like to be able to use the skills that my players have. I don't mind diving tackle, etc... which make it harder to dodge, because fundamentally I'd still get to use my dodge reroll. Now I'm not suggesting swapping tackle for diving tackle on dwarf teams (shudder), but as I said before it would be nice to have one player for whom tackle wouldn't take away that reroll.

Talking about those two games. The dwarves equalised on there last turn and I was receiving on my last turn of the game. in one turn I killed his longbeard with the mighty blow, SI his runner with dodge and SI his Troll Slayer. Result!

[Marcus]

My point is simply that I would like to be able to use the skills that my players have.

So would a coach who has tackle players. Without Dodge in the equation, Tackle is a meaningless skill. Tackle players cancelling your Dodge? Tough, that's the game. Tackling team vs a team with no Dodge? Tough, that's the game. Dauntless players vs a team of ST3 players? Tough, that's the game. 3 Rerolls on your team and they all get nicked by a halfling master chef? Tough, that's the game. Sometimes you just have to win the game with one hand tied behind your back.

You want to stick two fingers up to a Dwarf coach? Beat them.

[vorner23]

All it takes is a little planning. To win.

Imagine the dwarves point of view? It would be far more unbalanced NOT to have tackle than to have it. Always dodging on anything but double 1s? That takes the tactical element out of the game for a slow team at least.

You can exploit a gap on the flank in turn 1 if blitzed properly. So where's the sense in making it even easier For fast high AG teams.

Tackle should stay! As is the general consensus i think?

[Ramorr]

I have to wonder why there is a house rule forum if the majority of responses take the form. "Tough that's the game", "You're only saying that because you're not a good blood bowl player" or "If you don't like that aspect of the rules, don't put yourself in that situation". Surely we're now done with the chest beating responses.

I think it's quite right to draw on the halfling chef and the surehands/stripball cases as being other examples of counters. I think I stand corrected on saying tackle was an exception.

I'm not pushing for tackle to be removed. I just played a couple of games where the entire opposition had tackle and I just wanted one player to make one dodge reroll. I don't see the harm in having a trait that allows this.

No one has as yet told me why this is such a bad idea. I mean its not like tackle is the only thing the dwarves have going for them.

[Grumbledook]

If you want to house rule that in your league feel fine to do so. The dwarfs had to take tackle on the players that didn't start with it, instead of other potentially more useful skills. Maybe he had to take tackle on a blitzer instead of strip ball, and he did this becuase your team all started with dodge. So you starting with dodge forced him to take tackle, instead of taking that strip ball skill. Now the same blitzer blitzes your ball carrier and only gets a pushback, how much use was tackle then, if he had taken strip ball the ball would be lose, forcing you to have to retrieve it.

You see there are lots of possabilities as to what skills to take. Maybe if he had taken strip ball instead, it would have made it easier for your team to slip past. With most skill choices its 6 of one half a dozen of the other.