Alternative Humans

[EastCoast]

I figured as much.

The ST3 MA7 catcher would certainly be an improvement over the existing catcher, but that MA 7 catcher ain't got no flava!

The MA8 ST2 catcher's got flava! A MA7 human thrower has flava!

I think you're under-estimating the all powerful properties of flava!

[Glorian Underhill]

Yesterday I have played our local league Semi finals with my human team against another coach with also humans. We have the 7337 Catcher for 80k on the team roster in this league.

We both have 3 Catchers each usually with Block and Sidestep as extraskills. I won 2:1 but that was only because he was an quite unexperienced coach. So my thoughts are again that the Movement 7 Catcher greatly imrpoves the humans. Or more specific the way I play them.

Not so much passing, some handoffs and lots of running. The Ball in the hands of an blodge Catcher gives the human team some security against most cagebreakers which a ST2 Catcher even with Blodge, couldnt achieve. Also in a melee the ST 3 Catcher is reallly usefull. Especially with some GuardBlitzers around.

So to say it another time. Blodge Catchers arent your new Blitzers. Blitzers Blitz, as I have outfitted them with Tackle and Strip Ball, or Mighty Blow. The Catchers do the Ball Handling and Running.

[Grumbledook]

Lycos won the 2009 Spring ECBBL league with Humans. (He did have a ST4 AG4 blitzer though)

I'm in the final of the 2009 Autumn ECBBL league with Humans... (I rolled +ST on a blitzer after game 1, only lost one game vs orcs where I lost a lot of players early). I beat Lycos in the quarters and Geggster in the semis. Playing the final on monday vs necros.

This is using the normal 8237 catcher

[mattgslater]

Really. Humans are only a little smidgeon underpowered. ST3 Catchers seems to be overdoing it, if you ask me.

[bbdave522]

I think that Catchers only need a little boost to make them worth the money, which would likely be enough to give Humans a boost up solidly into the middle of tier 1. In the spirit of Humans, any skills gained really ought to be reroll skills. I vote for giving the Catchers Sure Feet for free. This would make the Catchers effectively MA 9 (35/36 is pretty good most of the time), and make them more reliable when they sprint for the endzone. It would also fit their "flava" in the team.

[mattgslater]

See, I think the Human Catcher should have no more than two skills, and should only have vanilla skills like, oh, Catch and Dodge. 60k or AV8 would do it.

[EastCoast]

See, I think the Human Catcher should have no more than two skills, and should only have vanilla skills like, oh, Catch and Dodge. 60k or AV8 would do it.

AV8 is interesting, it would help keep them on the pitch. I wonder why it wasn't considered for LRB 6. What are your thoughts, just out of curiosity on limiting the number of catchers to 2, but giving them AG 4.

Skaven get 2 Human Blitzer equivalents and 4 Gutter Runners, Humans would have 4 Blitzers and 2 almost gutter runners. Seems almost symmetrical. Or do you think that would push them too high?

[Joemanji]

That's not what Humans are about.

[mattgslater]

I'm with Joe on that one. Humans should not have AG or ST above 3 on a rookie player no matter what, except for the Ogre.

But an Imperial Pact team would be rather cool, no?

0-16 Human
0-2 Human Thrower
0-2 Human Blitzer
0-2 Dwarf
0-1 Halfling
0-1 Wood Elf Renegade
0-1 Ogre

Or replace the 0-2 Dwarf with 0-1 Slayer and 0-1 Norseman? Or, better, put Grim Ironjaw on the list of Star Players, along with Griff, Morg, Zara, Puggy and Zug?

[Glorian Underhill]

@mattgslager

I think that the human roster should been left as it is.
So 4 Catchers, 4 Blitzers and so on. The existing minirange should just stay as it is.

And if we are all dissagreeing on how to change the current team, or don't change at all, I think we agree that the Catcher is the weak point of the human game.

If the fight turns 2 ore more turns you will be with even 2 catchers on the loosing side. So you are pushed to score fast. And that is a thing an AG 3 ST 2 Catcher can't do as easily as an AG 4 Gutter Runner, or any Elf.

A
7 3 3 7 Catcher or an
8 3 3 7 one
will greatly imrpove the human strengh, and it will bring them up in the Tiers. And it will bring them on the same level as Orcs. As in the current setup someone has said it quite good, that if you start with humans, it is always an uphillbattle. If nothing unordinary happens the Orcs will win. And if he has 4 Blitzers and 4 BOBs, then you can say good night.

I don't say that you can't win with humans against such a team, or any other team but the sentence of "humans can do all" feels more like they "can do nothing right" at the moment.

[mubo]

I don't thing the +AG idea is that bad, but probably too much. How about having a skill that allows the catchers to catch on 2s?

i.e replacing extra arms with some kind of Agility access '+1 to catch skill'. If humans could transfer the ball reliably, they could begin to be a decent team.

I understand DC sort of does this, but hand offs are more common.

[Glorian Underhill]

i.e replacing extra arms with some kind of Agility access '+1 to catch skill'. If humans could transfer the ball reliably, they could begin to be a decent team.

Actually that Skill is named "Diving Catch" in Lrb 6.0.
But you are right, even the changed Diving Catch only works after an accurate pass.

[mubo]

I meant giving that to catchers from the off, so they can take hand offs AND passes on 2s.

[mattgslater]

@mattgslager

I think that the human roster should been left as it is.
So 4 Catchers, 4 Blitzers and so on. The existing minirange should just stay as it is.

Oh, that's not what I'm saying at all. I was just lightheartedly proposing an alternate pact-style team. Chaos Pact is fun, after all, but there's still good ol' Chaos....

And if we are all dissagreeing on how to change the current team, or don't change at all, I think we agree that the Catcher is the weak point of the human game.

Nice summary of our common ground and point of departure. I think ST3 is too much surgery, but at least we agree we're both barking up the right tree.

I meant giving that to catchers from the off, so they can take hand offs AND passes on 2s.

Actually, I really like the 3+ handoff bit: Catch is enough in my book. I think it's a lot of what separates elf teams from the rest. Humans have the speed, are cheaper and hit harder, but lack the reliable d6 rolls.

Hmmm... what about 130k Ogres to go along with AV8 Catchers? That would allow 1M to look like: 1 Ogre, 4 Blitzers, 3 (Thrower/Catcher)s, 3 Linemen and 3 TRRs, a handsome team by any means. And with AV8 Catchers, they'll have decent skill memory at the high levels.

[EastCoast]

Hmmm... what about 130k Ogres to go along with AV8 Catchers? That would allow 1M to look like: 1 Ogre, 4 Blitzers, 3 (Thrower/Catcher)s, 3 Linemen and 3 TRRs, a handsome team by any means. And with AV8 Catchers, they'll have decent skill memory at the high levels.

That's a really nice starting roster. Maybe in 20 years for LRB 7.0... I like that more than the STR 3 catchers.