MVP vs Experience Rolls

[Relborn]

hmmm would it be to much to give every participating player just one xp for being on the pitch for a drive ?

Sure on a maximum a team would get 16 xp per game but on a view per player theese steps come in very slowly (instead of the 5 point chunks from an MVP)

Personally I would prefer an retirement roll after each season/Blood-Bowl Trophy event

[manusate]

SBG, read the proposed rules again. Carefully.

Relborn, it would be way too much. And for the reiterment after season, there is pack of after-season rules called The Crush in nice pdf format floating around the internet. I don´t remember where I got em, sorry.

Still, Marcus-Acerak rule is just too good to be ignored. Is one of those rules that are good enough to replace current ones, and deserves some playtest in your local leagues.

My idea (and Neo´s) was to link the EXPerirnce to the ageing, but this seemed kinda difficult, as Acerak pointed. I made a new suggestion that would link EXP to a different kind of ageing, fixed and psychological (peaking and forced retirement) rather than random and physical (injuries and stats decreases).

Ian pointed that the numbers were quite high, and he was right, so I´m still trying to figure out a way to make it better. I still think it´s a very interesting approach.

Maybe you can help. Your brains still work, don´t they? Mine is kinda messed up this days.

Cheers

[SBG]

Manusate : I read the entire thread again, then another time.

I still hate that rule.

I still think that the answer would be MVP to player who played the game and ageing roll after a season/tournament. I would even be in favor of rolling ageing more often for players who have niggling injuries, since that injury can get worse, but I'm sorry, I can' tstand that ruling just proposed.

Fred

[manusate]

Because the way I understand it, with this rule, they would have to roll for ageing every 5 EXP points earned PLUS each time they gain a skill

Fred, hope that you understood the rule this time. No pun intended.

I don´t want to convince you that this rule is the best human creation since soft lavatory paper. But if you are going to say things like "I hate it" or "I still hate it", it would be nice to explain why you hate it. You know, reasoning, a line of arguments, that sort of thing.

Thank you in advance.

[SBG]

Manu,
I thought I had made my case when I offered what I think is the answer to this "good-looking" MVP roll.

MVP to a player that played;
Ageing roll between seasons/tournaments.

Fred

[franck_le_grand]

I like these rules!

But there's one problem, that I think was pointed out earlier. What happens when your lineman has got the 6 exp points?
The chance for him to improve any further are very small after that.
Sure he can make som cas. but it doesn't happen that often.

I was thinking about replacing the MVP award by draw two random players and give them 3 SPP each. Just call it something else than MPV to make it realistic (For explaining I call it MVP2). When a lineman gets his second MVP2 he gets his first SPR. After that it will take some time for him to advance but the SPP will be spread amongst the players.
Furthermore I would like to the rules for aging changed. I was thinking of something like SBG wrote about only rolling after a season or league for each player using the normal rules for aging.

But I do like the idea with the exp except for the above.

[manusate]

I give up.

[Acerak]

My idea (and Neo´s) was to link the EXPerirnce to the ageing, but this seemed kinda difficult, as Acerak pointed.

I think I've done it. Here's what we're using here for next season, which starts in two weeks:

1. Replace MVP with EXP. A player rolls a die after each game he's played; if he beats his EXP total, he gains an EXP. A roll of 1 always fails, and a roll of 6 always succeeds.

2. Once a player acquires 5 EXP, he becomes a Pro and acquires the Pro characteristic. It's removed from the list of General skills.

3. Once the player has become a Pro, his career is at its height; after that, it starts to come down. If he rolls a 1 for any EXP roll, he must roll another D6. On a second roll of 1, he must roll immediately on the ageing table.

Now this ageing table is a little different from the current table:

Code: Select all

2-7   Miss Next Game
8     Niggling Injury
9     AV-1
10    MA-1
11    AG-1
12    ST-1

A roll of 2-7 indicates a pulled hamstring, sore bones, aching back, whatever strikes you as being too old to play this game at your previous level. All rolls of 8-12 also force the player to sit a week. But there aren't as many serious long-term effects - actually, the EXP roll becomes the long-term threat.

A local coach has written an application to track this effect. In a nutshell, once the team is full of Pros, they'd have a player sitting out every other game. And every four games, someone would get dinged with a niggling injury or stat reduction. On the plus side, this eliminates two major complaints about the current ageing system:

1. Players can age after one game. With this rule, it's impossible to age until you've played at least 6 games.

2. Ageing is a penalty for success (i.e., for gaining a skill). Under these rules, ageing is a penalty (a) for being around long enough to become a veteran and (b) for failing a couple rolls.

By definition, then, this rule will keep SPPs evenly spread, allow players to get better over time, give them a bonus for hanging around long enough, but remove them at a steady clip on a per-team basis.

If adding Pro seems over the top to you, ditch it, but it works for us.

-Chet

[Acerak]

We're also toying with the idea of making the second D6 roll a 4+ to avoid rolling on the ageing table instead of a 2+. This would probably result in too many missed games, however - on a team with 12 vets, you'd end up with 1 player missing every week due to age, PLUS any other injuries you took. Our fouling rules are a little looser than v1.3, so I imagine we'll have enough on-field attrition to keep quite a few players in check.

-Chet

[manusate]

Mmmmmmmmmm... (thinking)

[Snew]

Wow Acerak, that looks good. Now I have to go back and read the rest of this thread. Grumble grumble grumble

[SBG]

I like this proposition better (this is new stuff, right Manu ? ).

It is more in the spirit of what I thought the ageing roll should be. I would propose that to my league as well !

Fred

[DoubleSkulls]

So following on from my previous post an average player wont reach 6 EXP for 19.7 games.

My big bugbear about the whole linking of EXP to ageing is that is favours the players who can gather SPPs quickly and get the skills. Your average Longbeard or Black Orc is never going to really reach the heights of SPPs (and skills) that a catcher could - and are going to have to wait ages for that 1st skill.

Personnally I feel that the whole concept is going to hava a major impact on medium-long term team balance, with the shift in favour of low armour teams who suffer more from player turnover.

Ian

[Acerak]

So following on from my previous post an average player wont reach 6 EXP for 19.7 games.

I don't think that's correct. As I've calculated it, the average player has 4 EXP after 6 games. He needs to roll a 5 or 6 to gain a 5th EXP, so that should take 1-3 games, on average. Figure 5 EXP by 7-9 games, so 13-15 games for 6 EXP.

My big bugbear about the whole linking of EXP to ageing is that is favours the players who can gather SPPs quickly and get the skills. Your average Longbeard or Black Orc is never going to really reach the heights of SPPs (and skills) that a catcher could - and are going to have to wait ages for that 1st skill.

I don't understand where you're coming from. This concept wipes out the direct link between ageing and skills. Instead, it links ageing to games played (roughly). Generally, those players tend to be players with skills.

EXP seems (to me) to be a GOOD way for Longbeards and BOBs to gain SPPs. It's that or wait for an MVP, right?

-Chet

[neoliminal]

1. Replace MVP with EXP. A player rolls a die after each game he's played; if he beats his EXP total, he gains an EXP. A roll of 1 always fails, and a roll of 6 always succeeds.

2. Once a player acquires 5 EXP, he becomes a Pro and acquires the Pro characteristic. It's removed from the list of General skills.

3. Once the player has become a Pro, his career is at its height; after that, it starts to come down. If he rolls a 1 for any EXP roll, he must roll another D6. On a second roll of 1, he must roll immediately on the ageing table.

I just made a spreadsheet that runs these numbers and no one is ageing at the rate I would find acceptible.

Get your friend to run the numbers Chet. You've got some decent mechanics here, but I think they need to have a bit more bite.