Discuss Fantasy football-style board games - GW's Blood Bowl, Impact!'s Elfball, Privateer Press' Grind, Heresy's Deathball, etc. THIS IS NOT AN NFL FANTASY FOOTBALL SITE!
Pink Horror wrote:Maybe the d6+d8 table is hard to accept. That's okay, the planning system works with a 2d6 table as well. I don't know about you, but here are the two things I'd want to do most if I were to change the kickoff table:
1) Keep the amount of look-ups to a minimum.
2) Tweak some of those too-strong events (Riot, Pitch Invasion, and Blitz!).
My memory isn't so good. I'm not going to be able to recall what a 45 or 21 roll is off the top of my head, so I'll have to go to the rulebook almost every kickoff. With a planning system, though, each coach can be expected to know the 10-12 events on his sheet, so the kickoff table shouldn't have to be consulted.
Like I said, such a system was postulated last year, but was rejected as too cumbersome.
As for Corner Blitz, your best defense seems to be in comparing it to Blitz. That isn't good. I don't think anyone wants any new results that are even close to Blitz. Are all the players in the wide zones really corners? How about a compromise: one player from each widezone can take a free blitz action.
There are three ways to roll a blitz on the current table. 5-5, 6-4, 4-6. The Corner Blitz is on par with Blitz, but to have a different flavour. In proportion to the current kick-off table, this should roughly give the same advantage/disadvantage. This new table is not trying to patch holes in or balance the old table, it's only adding variety.
Longshot wrote:26-is it really a misreading?
the defence set up before the offense and sometimes, it will be great to dont be beat down or to be in deep defence.
My thought was that anything where the defense is forced to move players involuntarily is bad. In this case you are likely to move back players who would have better been placed closer.
31-so, if on a normal kick the ball bouce in the kicking team's field but for only one square, will it be a touchback? or no?
does this change the rules or is it an exeption? (advice: put it black on white or there will be a lot of thread about it)
It's an exception, which is why it's spelled out. Do you think it needs a further clarification that this is an exception from normal rules?
neoliminal wrote:
My thought was that anything where the defense is forced to move players involuntarily is bad. In this case you are likely to move back players who would have better been placed closer.
It's an exception, which is why it's spelled out. Do you think it needs a further clarification that this is an exception from normal rules?
IMHO,i dont think that moving defense is bad. What i mean is that it is good to have a thing like that in the table, but i dont think that the name is appropriate cos it is 'one time good and one time bad..' but that is not much important.
The explanation is needed, not that i didnt understood you, but i know people ,even here, that will say later that they didnt know, that they want explanations... So as an advice, all you can do now, is not something that you have to do later
I know you are not trying to change the KO table events in terms of their strength or probability. However, there is another thread on this where a number of BB Coaches would like some of the effects toned down. Not sure if you checked the thread but here it is:-
Even if you don't want to tone it down, there are a number of suggestions on that thread which you could easily slot into the expanded table.
Here are a few of my suggestions:-
Jump Start
Roll 2d6 and add cheerleaders (reroll ties). Inspired by the crowd (who have been whipped into a frenzy by the minuscule vestments worn by the winning team's cheerleaders), 3 random players on the winning team can take an action before the first turn.
Naughty Player
Roll 2d6 (reroll ties). One player on the winning team (your choice) sees the referee looking the other way and can take an action (block, blitz or move) before the kick off lands.
Minor Pitch Invasion
Roll 2d6 and add FF (ties - both teams succeed). A fan high on the latest pills runs onto the pitch in your opponent's half of the field. Roll a d8: 1 to 3 a wide zone, 4 to 6 the other wide zone or 7 to 8 the central part - pick a square in the appropriate area. The fan has the following stats 4117 Bonehead and is controlled as a player on the winning team. However, he must be the first player moved after Fanatics and Wild Animals, he cannot score and does not cause a turnover if he fails (he isn't on the team). In all other respects he is treated like a normal player. At the end of the drive (if he manages to survive that long!) the security guards arrest him and he is ejected from the game.
Trick Play
Roll 2 d6 and add Assistant Coaches - reroll any ties. A well rehearsed Special Play comes off. The winning coach may reposition the ball to any square on the field - the ball will only scatter 1 square and then bounce.
On The Booze
Roll d6 (ties both teams lose). A random player on the pitch on the losing team has been out on an all night bender and its finally catching up with him / her. Place the player stunned.
Slippery Ball
The kicking team have covered the ball in oil. The first attempt at picking up the ball (by either side) is made at -1. After this the oil is wiped off and all further attempts are made as normal.
Its Too Easy
The team with the highest TR is strolling through this game and they lose a reroll for the remainder of this half. NB if the team with the highest TR is losing the game, this event has no effect.
Streaker
A streaker runs onto the pitch. Roll 2 d6 to determine which team is affected - reroll any ties. Roll a d6 to determine which wide zone he / she (got to allow for Amazons too!) appears (1-3, 4-6). Anyone in that widezone has the following effect:-
The kicking team - lose their Tackle zones for the receiving teams first turn (got to look at those kn*ckers!).
The receiving team - cannot move or take an action the first turn (also looking at those bouncy bits!).
Utak Hai has also posted his own expanded table on page 3 of the thread listed above.
Dave do we really need more results that automatically help out the winning team? or does the word winning in those results mean that the win some die roll for the result?
Reason:''
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Sean - no I'm not looking to give an advantage to the team leading the game. In all cases bar one (Its Too Easy) the current score in the game has no effect - the "winning" (or "losing") referred to in the descriptions is the roll to determine which side wins (or loses) the kick off event.
Phil and I worked on some kick-off table madness. I have a complete D66 table that will be in use in my league in two weeks. I'll try to put it on-line tomorrow.
How did I handle some of the concerns raised by other coaches?
1. There's a large 11-16 result in which nothing happens.
2. Pitch Invasions and Thrown Rocks affect both teams.
3. Blitz is 1 result out of 36.
See, I read "Pitch Invasion has a big effect on the game" as "LOSING a Pitch Invasion has a big effect on the game." So I made sure both teams were equally affected, and when all is said and done each will be affected less than it would had it been the sole losing team.
my tables are a bit different from chet's (we more shared ideas than collaborated, as our goals were different), i will also be converting them into a web-friendly format and trying to get them out and about tomorrow...
the point i was moving toward was to provide a kickoff table and weather table for each of 6 different stadiums... why? variety. i sort of took john's stadium idea, but instead of using gate and having special rules for the stadiums, i have a geographically limited league (the lustrian premier league), so i made up 6 stadiums around the area... before each game, you roll a d6 and see which one you play in... the differences are that each has a unique weather table, and each has a unique kickoff table... there are no other special rules or factors between the stadiums-none are "better" than others...
there were several things i wanted to rid my games of or change:
1) i was sick of games going from blizzards to heatwaves. i was also sick of going months without anything other than perfect bloodbowl weather. the new weather tables generally have a 2, 3-4, 5-9, 10-11, 12 distribution (lustria is a bit more tropical afterall), but one stadium is remarkably calm and one is domed... all in all, it balances quite nicely _and_ weather changes make sense for a change (without having to claim wizards are involved)... the weather results are mostly mechanically similar or identical to the existing ones, it's a lot of semantic modification rather than rule-writing...
2) i was tired of the same tired old kickoff table... i wanted variety and flair in my games, especially without event cards... using a d66 setup allows for a lot more flavor....
3) i am sick and tired and over kickoff results turning the tide of games with disgusting frequency... riots end games prematurely, throw a rock kills players, pitch invasions cripple teams and most of all, blitz changes games' dynamics completely... one of my goals, whether the masses like it or not, was to take the teeth out of the kickoff table... i wanted flavor, i didn't want one extraneous roll deciding games anymore...
the new kickoff table makes it so that there are no results which directly cause an injury roll, usually players are stunned or ko'd by damaging events... a blitz now only allows the defense to move _1 player_ out of phase, riots are d3 turns, etc... i've also added a bevy of new results and mechanics, most of which make cheerleaders and assistant coaches used on nearly every kickoff, thus raising their value...
whether the softening of the tables are liked or not, i think you'll find that if you are playing in a league setting, the concept of writing up tables for each stadium in the area like this will really add a good vibe to games, like i said, i'll try to have this stuff posted or otherwise available for review tomorrow...
Ok. I can't put up a PDF file, unfortunately, so here goes:
11-16 - NOTHING HAPPENS: That’s right, absolutely NOTHING happens. Now scatter the ball and get to it!
21 - RIOT: The game is held up by a riot. Roll a D6. Each team should move its turn marker that many spaces along the track. If this takes the number of turns to 8 or more for both teams, the half ends.
22 - GET THE REF: The fans decide that the referee has been bought and exact vengeance! The referee is beaten up so badly that he’s willing to give both teams the benefit of the doubt. Each coach may add +2 to his Argue the Call rolls.
23 - SAC(RIFICE) BREAK: Cultists of Nuffle barge onto the field to perform some strange ritual. The resulting break in the action means that you should clear the field and treat the game as if a touchdown had been scored (i.e., roll for knocked out players, make Penalty Rolls for Secret Weapons, etc.) before setting up again.
24 - STREAKER: A stark naked (and quite comely) dark elf lass leaps on the field and runs about to the delight of the fans. One randomly selected player on the field from each team becomes quite excited and decides to catch the streaker, and a fight breaks out between them (and the streaker). Each coach should roll a D6 and add his player’s ST to the score. The winning player makes off to the Reserves box with the dark elf; the loser must roll for injury straight away. In the event of a tie, the streaker has beaten them both away, and both players must roll for injury!
25 - GUEST STAR: A Star Player in the stands, feeling bad for his team, decides to take part in today’s contest. The Star Player will automatically suit up for the losing side; if the game is tied, he will join the team with the lower Team Rating. If the ratings are equal, each coach should roll a D6 for his services. Re-roll any ties. The winning coach may select any Star Player that will normally play for his team and then immediately place him on his side of the field in a legal position. The Star Player departs when the drive ends.
26 - ROBBED: A group of thieves takes advantage of the focus on the kick-off and steals some of the gate receipts. Each coach must apply a -1 penalty to his team’s winnings roll at the end of the match. This effect is cumulative if rolled again later in the match.
31 - THROW SOME ROCKS: The fans begin hurling debris at the players, who must quickly dodge away. Roll a D6 for each player on the field (for both teams). If the score is higher than the player’s AG, then the player is knocked down by a rock and may be injured. Roll for armor and injury as normal. Only players on the field are eligible.
32 - PITCH INVASION: The fans are invading the pitch! Roll a D6 for each player on the field (for both teams). If the score is higher than the player’s ST, then the player is knocked down in the melee and may be injured. Roll for armor and injury as normal. Only players on the field are eligible.
33 - HOOLIGANS: Some fans in the stands start a brawl with the fans from the other team. Each coach should roll 2D6 and add his team’s Fan Factor and Cheerleaders to the score. The low scorer’s fans are pummeled without mercy, and their team must roll with an additional –1 penalty on the Fan Factor table at the end of the game. In case of a tie, both teams suffer the effects equally.
34 - GROUPIES: Some fans take advantage of the break in the action to ask for a star player’s autograph. The player on the field with the most SPPs is surrounded by fans. (If multiple players have the same SPPs, determine the attention-getter randomly.) Place a marker beneath the player’s model to indicate that he is surrounded by groupies. The player may take no action (and may not be blocked by opposing players) until he first rolls a 6 on a single die after declaring an action for the turn. Once the player rolls a 6 or the drive ends, the fans have had enough and leave the player alone.
35 - THE FAN: A crazed fan streaks onto the field of play. Place a fan model beneath the ball before you roll for scatter. The fan has MA6, ST4, AG3, AV8, and the Frenzy trait. Move the player randomly prior to each team’s turn, using the scatter template. If the fan runs into a player, he will attempt to block that player before continuing his move. The fan will always try to go for it, and should always be treated as a member of the opposing team during each team’s turn. (If the fan ever moves into the square that contains the ball, scatter the ball immediately.) Players may attempt to block or blitz the fan normally. The fan leaves the field if he is knocked out or suffers a casualty. At the end of the drive, stadium security will arrest him and escort him from the stadium – after a good cudgeling, of course.
36 - HECKLERS: Loudmouths in the stands begin taunting the players, one of whom decides it’s time to shut them up. Each coach rolls a D6 and adds his team’s Fan Factor. Re-roll any ties. The high roller “wins” the event, and one random player on his team dives into the crowd to attack the fans! Roll for injury as normal.
41 - BAD KICK: The ball scatters 2D6 squares instead of D6.
42 - SLIP UP: The player nearest the spot of the ball slips in a patch of mud while trying to get underneath it. Place the player prone, but do not make an armor roll for him. If two or more players are equidistant from the ball, decide randomly which one falls down.
43 - THE CHUCK: The bigger fans in the stands begin throwing the smaller ones up in the air in a show of enthusiasm for their team. Each coach should roll two dice and add his team’s Fan Factor and Cheerleaders to the total. The high roller’s fans are very inspired by the display, and their coach may add +1 to his Fan Factor roll at the end of the game. In the case of a tie, both sides may add +1 to their post-game rolls.
44 - QUICK SNAP: The offense starts its drive a fraction before the defense is ready, catching the kicking team flat-footed. Each player on the receiving team is allowed to move one square. This is a free move that may be made into any adjacent square, ignoring tackle zones. It may be used to enter the opposing half of the field.
45 - PERFECT DEFENSE: The kicking team’s coach may re-organize his players. (In other words, he may set them up again.) The receiving team must remain in the setup chosen by its coach.
46 - BRILLIANT COACHING: Each coach rolls a D6 and adds the number of Assistant Coaches on his team to the score. The high scorer’s side gains a Team Re-roll for the remainder of the half.
51 - WILD MASCOT: One of the mascots has gotten loose and decides to make a meal out of a player. Each coach rolls D6; a player on the low scorer’s team has been bitten and must make an injury roll straight away. Re-roll any ties. Only players on the field and in the Reserves box are eligible.
52 - BLITZ: The kicking team gets a bonus team turn and may move before the receiving team. The bonus turn does not count against the kicking team’s turn limit for the half, so their coach does not have to move the turn marker along a space.
53 - CHEERING FANS: Each coach rolls a D6 and adds his team’s Fan Factor and the number of Cheerleaders to the score. The side with the higher score is inspired by their fans’ cheering and gains a Team Re-roll for the remainder of the half. Re-roll all ties.
54 - OY, MY HEAD! One of the players managed to sneak out for a little extracurricular activity last night, and the effects are just starting to catch up with him. Each coach should roll a D6 and add the number of Assistant Coaches to the score. Re-roll any ties. One random player from the losing team must be removed from the field and then placed in the KO box right away. Treat him as if he had the Bonehead characteristic for the rest of the match.
55 - WEATHER CHANGE: Make a new roll on the weather table and apply the result immediately.
56 - HIT THE LIGHTS: Something is wrong with the spell that is lighting up the stadium. For the duration of this drive, it’s too dark to throw the ball beyond Quick Pass range.
61 - GIRLS, GIRLS, GIRLS: One of the players is eyeing up the other team’s more attractive female fans. Each coach rolls D6 and adds his Fan Factor and Cheerleaders to the score. Re-roll any ties. One random player from the low roller’s team must miss this drive while he wanders off for a closer look. Place him in the Reserves box. Only players on the field are eligible.
62 - CABALVISION TIMEOUT: A lengthy commercial break allows each team to catch its breath. Both coaches may restock their Team Re-rolls to their usual maximums, just as if it were halftime.
63 - SIDELINE SQUABBLE: The coaching staff and the players are having a disagreement about the game plan for today’s contest. Each coach should roll a D6 and add the number of Assistant Coaches on the team to the score. Re-roll any ties. The high roller’s side loses a Team Re-roll for the rest of the half because of all the bickering! (If the high roller’s team has no Team Re-rolls left for this half, the opposing team gains one because of all the confusion caused by the squabbling coaches.)
64 - TEAM PHOTO: In its infinite wisdom, management has chosen this very moment to have the squad image recorded for the team calendar, using the latest in freeze-framed Cabalvision imaging. Unfortunately, the team pose has taken longer than expected. The coach of the team with the lower-rated Team Rating may reset the players on the higher-rated squad. If the Team Ratings are equal, the losing team may reset the leading team; if the game is tied, roll a D6 and re-roll all ties. The new setup must be legal (i.e., three players on the line of scrimmage, no more than two in each wide zone), and every player of the posing team must be adjacent to at least one team-mate.
65 - UNSPORTSMANLIKE CONDUCT: Some of the players from each team lose their control and begin to taunt each other, forcing the referee to eject someone before it gets ugly. Each coach rolls D6 and adds his Assistant Coaches and current number of available Team Re-rolls to the roll. One random player on the low roller’s side is ejected from the field of play. If the score is tied, the referee ejects one random player from each team.
66 - DID SOMEBODY SAY MCMURTY’S? McMurty vendors announce a big sale on their hot dogs. Blood Bowl players being very hungry fellows, they wander off the field for some food! Roll a D6 for each player on the field. On a roll of 1, the player has wandered off for a snack and must miss the drive. Place him in the Reserves box.
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Pitch Invasion and Throwing Rocks might be a bit extreme, so I might change them to D6 players on each team, or something similar. And although the table has undergone a lot of revision, I'm still interested in comments.
24 Streaker:
This means that the whole amazon team and the witch elves are lesbian
But otherwise i like it. But i think that you're right; only D6 players for the throw some rocks and the pitch invasion. We will be using your D66 kickoff in my league with these modifications.
I like a lot of the events up there. Super nifty stuff.
Two points:
Personally, I dislike the thought that only one in six drives is going to pull off without a hitch. That's just bizzare. You can't plot any real defensive of offensive schemes like that with any real hope. I don't like it under the current set ups, especially when I something like Perfect Defense, Blitz, or Quick Snap keeps coming up. All three of those slow down the game pretty dramatically, especially since, combined, they come up more often than a weather change (which seems missing on your chart?).
Second, to emphasize the importance of Cheerleaders and Assistant Coaches, I think it'd be nifty to see a whole 1/6 chance of using either on kickoff rolls. A chart like this might be kinda nifty...
11-6 Nothing
21-6 Nothing
31-6 Weather Change
41-6 Results that Cheerleaders can affect
51-6 Results that Coaches can affect
61-6 The brutal/bizzare stuff (Blitz, Perfect Defense, some of the other interesting ideas on your chart)
ok, here's a past-in of one of the six stadium data sheets just for an example of where i went with the idea... if anyone really wants the other 5 that bad, email me and i'll shoot them off to you...
note that capacity is really menaingless, i just put it in for fluff value, you don't "stage-up" to the next venue like john's system...
Built in the heart of Skeggi's bustling brewer district, Skeggi Stadium is not known for the quality of either its field, which is little more than packed sand with a few weeds growing on it, or the construction of its rough timber terraces, which collapse with some regularity. The Stadium is known for the action in the stands, which is often more violent than that on the pitch as these Norse fishermen get a bit rowdy with a few kegs in them, which is usually shortly before dawn, so by gametime they're pretty well hammered and looking for a fight.
Skeggi Stadium Weather Table
2 Torrential Rains: The rain is coming down in torrents. Only Quick Passes may be attempted and all attempts to Go For It on the soaked pitch fail on a 1 or a 2.
3-4 Rain: It’s raining, making the ball slippery and difficult to hold. This causes a -1 modifier on all attempts to catch the ball, including picking it up and handing it off.
5-9 Nice: Perfect Football weather
10-11 Blustery: All passing attempts are at -1 and any ball which scatters on a missed throw or kickoff will scatter an additional square.
12: Tropical Heat: The sea breeze falls off and the oppressive heat of Lustria sets in. It’s so hot and humid that some players collapse from heat exhaustion. Roll a D6 for each player on the field after a touchdown is scored. On a roll of 1 the player collapses and may not be set up for the next kick-off.
Skeggi Stadium Kickoff Table [yes, i know these are out of order]
11-12 Out of Beer!: The game is held up by a beer riot. Roll a d3, and each team moves their Turn counter one space along the Turn track. If this takes the number of turns to 8 or more for both teams, then the half ends.
41-42 Changing Weather: Make a new roll on the Weather table (see above).
13-14 Get the Ref! The fans decide the referee has been bought and exact vengeance! His replacement is so intimidated that for the rest of the half he will not award penalties against either team, even if he spots them making a foul.
43-44 Quick Snap! The offense start their drive a fraction before the defense are ready, catching the kicking team flat-footed. All of the players on the receiving team are allowed to move one square. This is a free move and may be made into any adjacent empty square, ignoring tackle zones. It may be used to enter the opposing half of the field.
15-16 What is that Smell? The winds change and a steady breeze blows into the stadium from the wharf, or the piss houses, or the pig pens, or any of the number of particularly noxious portions of the town chosen as "stinkiest place in lustria" annually. Roll a d6 for each player on the pitch, any player who rolls a '1' is immediately stunned.
45-46 Epic Recap: The stadium announcer, in typically long-winded Norse fashion, takes so long to describe the last play of the previous drive to the crowd that the next drive is delayed. Clear the pitch and set up for the kickoff again, as though a TD had just been scored.
21-22 Perfect Defense: The kicking team’s coach may reorganize his players, in other words he can set them up again. The receiving team must remain in the set-up chosen by their coach.
51-52 Brilliant Coaching: Each coach rolls a dice and adds the number of assistant coaches in their team to the score. Re-roll any ties. The side with the highest score gets an extra re-roll this half thanks to the brilliant training provided by the coaching staff.
23-24 Kegger: The fans in the front row share their kegs with the players in the dugout while the coaches aren't looking. Both teams roll 2d6 and add their number of assistant coaches. The low rolling side immediately moves all players currently in their reserves box to the KO'd box. In the event of a tie, both teams are affected.
53-54 It Ain't Over Until Brunhilda Sings: Local tradition has it that the game ends with a Valkyrie chanting the toll of the game's dead... unfortunately she's running late, so the referees stall for time. Each team moves their turn marker back one square. If this result is rolled at the start of a half, it is ignored.
25-26 Cheering Fans: Each coach rolls a dice and adds their team’s fan factor and their number of cheerleaders to the score. Re-roll any ties. The side with the highest score is inspired by their fans cheering and gets an extra re-roll this half.
55-56 Blitz! One player on The kicking team gets a bonus team turn and may move before the receiving team. The bonus turn does not count against the kicking team’s turn limit for the half, so their coach does not have to move the Turn marker along a space, and he cannot be called for illegal procedure for failing to move the Turn marker.
31-32 Terrace Brawl: Gangs of drunken fishermen decide to punch it up in the terraces. Each coach rolls 1d6 and adds their fan factor, the loser's Fan Factor is halved (round up) for the remainder of the match. In the event of a tie, reroll.
61-62 Bleacher Collapse: One of the stands, built in hasty fashion from palm trunks and not up to the task of holding up either fans or beer in such large volumes, gives way in a thunderous crash. Each team rolls 1d6 and adds their number of cheerleaders, the low-rolling side loses a team reroll for the remainder of the match as their best cheering section is now being dug out from under the mess. In the event of a tie, both teams are affected.
33-34 Bad Kick: The ball scatters a number of squares equal to the roll of two dice on the kick-off, instead of only one dice.
63-64 Throw a Beer Stein: Each coach rolls two dice and adds their team’s fan factor to the score; the high scorer’s fans are the ones that threw the beer stein. A tie means that both teams are affected. Decide randomly which player in the other team was hit (only players on the field are eligible) and place any affected player stunned immediately.
35-36 Pirates! a crew of daring pirates robs the team boats docked at the wharf during the game and makes off with a portion of the team treasury. Each team rolls 2d6 and adds the number of assistant coaches they have. The low rolling team loses 10,000gcs from their treasury immediately. If the rolls are tied, both teams are robbed. If the robbed team's treasury is empty, then there is no effect.
65-66 Pitch Invasion: The fans storm the pitch. Each coach rolls a dice and for each of that many of their players, rolls an additional d6 to see how badly they fared in the skirmish. On a 1-3 the player is Stunned, on a 5-6 they are KO’d, and on a 6, they are Badly Hurt. Once all players injuries are completed, proceed with the drive (do not set up again).
Cervidal wrote:Personally, I dislike the thought that only one in six drives is going to pull off without a hitch. That's just bizzare. You can't plot any real defensive of offensive schemes like that with any real hope.
I've noticed a division in coaches between random & bizarre vs. straight tacticle playing. While I love to play tactics in frustrating my opponent, I'm just as quick to laugh when half my team is crushed by a pitch invasion. The days of the cards are gone (when players controlled the wacky & bizarre). Now it's confined to kick-off tables & goblin weapons.
Leagues should house rule the kick off tables to their liking. Some will be straight laced & others will be random. But for anything that might become official and get into the LRB, it should be a mixture of both.
Reason:''
"A twist of the wrist, a slip of the blade, and your posturing is ended"
