human catchers...st 2

Bizzy · Post by **Bizzy** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 3:42 pm

My point wasn't saying to beat a team at their own game. It was saying they aren't a finess team, and they aren't a bashy team.

With a double or 2 on an Elf team you have a couple of guard guys too.

So overall humans aren't strong enough to out bash a running team or fast enough to outrun a bashy team.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 4:28 pm

with the same 2 doubles you get 2 additional Guard, which allows you to still outbash elves. and to hold a bit against bashy teams.

Bizzy · Post by **Bizzy** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 5:31 pm

Well overall a human team is either liked by a player or not. If enough people think they are under represented with what they can and can't do then something will change if not nothing will.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 5:47 pm

i'm sorry, i'm not of the opinion that the majority is necessarily always right...

Munkey · Post by **Munkey** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 5:54 pm

Skummy wrote:Humans are an odd team. They don't do anything particularly well, so they really need to rely on playing to their opponent's weaknesses. This does make them one of the hardest teams to play well.

I'm wondering if this is not the root of a lot of this problem, they are a hard team to play with but they are often presented as a good team to start with rather than an experienced coaches team.

I've been doing rather well with them recently, despite taking a lot of casulties and not being able to beat Undead yet. But the part I struggle most with is scoring against bashy teams, I can't keep my Catchers on the pitch long enough for them to be an effective scoring threat. If I was going to improve the team I think raising the Catcher ST would be the first thing to look at (from a fluff point of view I've always wondered why High Elves got ST3 Catchers and not anyone else).

As to whether the team is underpowered, probably not, the teams in BB will never be perfectly balanced but so long as coaching skill matters more than team choice (except for the deliberately bad teams) thats balance enough.

I'd still be interested to hear the experiences of anyone who tries ST3 Catchers as house rules though.

absent1 · Post by **absent1** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 8:00 pm

another idea would be to up the av on a catcher to 8, and leave the price or up the price. that way they would be more durable but less likly to unbalace the team. we will probably try the str up first, if it's too good maybe try this, if anyone ever plays humans again in our league.

bubb · Post by **bubb** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 8:48 pm

This is a hard positional to do anything with. They shouldn't be as strong as a lineman or as durable yet they shouldn't be on par with a halfling. I think the onlything to do is up the ST, drop the MA to 7 and jack the price up 10k...maybe?

bound for glory · Post by **bound for glory** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 8:49 pm

i'm thinking of bumping up the catchers st for our next league. we'll see how it goes. but i don't think it can hurt to play test it.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 10:19 pm

well, humans are the only team besides elves that start with that high a movement, right ? that's worth something, i would have thought. i sure enjoy it myself.

absent1 · Post by **absent1** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 11:01 pm

lizardmen?
chaos dwarf are pretty high MA b/c of the bulls(effectivly like a 9 ma)?
skaven?

JaM · Post by **JaM** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 11:17 pm

I've played humans in a league, and in some tournaments.

If you dnt start with catchers in a league, it's okay ! The st2av7 is going to hurt you, and they are expensive, AND you cant protect them. Get your blitzers to score, get some catcher-protecting skills (guard ?), and after a few games pick up the catchers.
A few linemen will have block by then, and could be the "stand-in" blitzers/linefodder, whatever.
They hurt in a tournament. Im not the best of all coaches, but the statements here are correct. You cant outbash a team, but sometimes outrun them. However, if you face a FAST team with a low AV, you are not getting them either...

I think; good for league play, not that good for tournaments.

League roster; 4 blitzers, 2 throwers, 2-3 rerolls, FF as desired, and 6 linemen. Next game; apo, after that: get some cash and add some catchers. retire a lino if needed, and add the ogre sometime after that.
Should work...

Mattchaos · Post by **Mattchaos** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 11:49 pm

I think +1 strength and -1 Move for a higher cost is a good option.
For humans teams like amazones and Norses catchers are Move 6 and strength 3. Here we have an extra move but not the same team ...

absent1 · Post by **absent1** » Tue Feb 22, 2005 12:07 am

humans SHOULD be good at a tourney, since they don't have high str or agi for long term development goodness, but have many skills to start with, so that humans are so poor in tourneys really illustrates that the list is weak all around, imo, hence the houserule, i think they are a fine "challenging" team, but our human player is diehard humans in every game, warhammer mordheim, whatever, and we want to make them a little more bearable for him.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » Tue Feb 22, 2005 12:21 am

if bulls have MA9, surely you can accept catchers to have MA9 as well. oh, and the bulls are 130k and probably a broken unit. great comparison indeed

plasmoid · Post by **plasmoid** » Tue Feb 22, 2005 8:08 pm

Hi all,
Bizzy said:
>So overall humans aren't strong enough to out bash a running team or fast enough to outrun a bashy team.

Well, I disagree on both counts.
(Though admittedly the former more than the latter).

I think AV8 catchers would be cool.
It would make the humans a bit like the other human nations, in that they all had one unique characteristic:
All norse have block, all amazons have dodge and all "imperials" have "AV+1" (i.e. 8.).

Cheers
Martin