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Dumb Skill Idea?
Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 2:00 am
by mattgslater
What do you think of this idea: I'm not sure what to call it (Intercept?), but a skill to enable a defensive player to anticipate the offense's plan and position himself accordingly sounds like it could be fun, though it would have to be more limited than Kick-Off Return.
How does this sound?
Intercept (G)
This player is a skilled defender, and is able to anticipate the offense's maneuvers. You may use this skill at the beginning of any drive when your team is kicking to the opponent's team, immediately after the receiving team has been set up, before the kick-off is begun. The player with Intercept may move up to two squares, but may not enter a square along the line of scrimmage. Your defense must be legal both before and after set-up. Only one player may use Intercept per drive.
WDYT? It would be useful for sure -- is it too powerful, or did I handicap it enough?
Re: Dumb Skill Idea?
Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 6:51 am
by Podfrey
mattgslater wrote:...would have to be more limited than Kick-Off Return...
Is that possible???
A coach will kick off twice on average. Moving two squares when you do this isn't worth a skill choice ahead of:
- Block
- Dodge
- Guard
- Tackle
- Pro
- Kick
- Dauntless
- etc, etc
At
least make it the reverse of the already rubbish Kick Off Return, i.e. 3 squares, can't start in a TZ and can't enter opponent's half.
Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 10:59 am
by PubBowler
I don't like the new skill idea, I think it too limited but what perked my interest is the opinion that Kick Off return is rubbish.
I thought that it was worth taking for some players (Dwarf Runners, Khemri Thro-Ras, Orc Throwers etc) but rubbish for everyone else.
Is there a suggestion it's useless for everyone?
And if so, could it be combined with Pass Block to make both more popular?
Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 4:22 pm
by mattgslater
IMO, Kick-Off Return and Pass Block don't have to be good skills. Kick-Off Return helps teams without P access do an important thing that they have trouble with, so it'll get taken even if it's underpowered, and if it's not underpowered it'll become overpowered. For teams with P access, it's one more weapon in the arsenal, and makes a good 2nd or 3rd improvement. The game needs skills like that, and Kick off Return is one of the best pieces of rules-writing to come out of 5th edition.
Pass Block is a very fun skill that a good coach can use to really show off his abilities. It isn't great; it shouldn't be great, or even good, because if it is, it'll become the center of an obvious, annoying gimmick and everybody and his obnoxious little brother will take it and nobody will pass anymore.
This skill is the same. If it looks like it sucks, that's because it's a skill for good coaches to use on the defense, and good coaches spend a lot of time on defense. So if you're not comparing it to Pro or Tackle, how in your opinion does it stack up to other "fun" skills like Shadowing and Pass Block? Should I make it 3 squares? I think the limit of two guys in the WZ is both important for balance and very fluffy, as the ball has not yet been kicked. I'd be ok with allowing a player to move to the LoS so long as he stays out of enemy zones (otherwise it gets really cheesy really fast).
Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 4:44 pm
by MadLordAnarchy
I'd take this skill because I'm very defensive minded in all sports and reading the game and plugging gaps is exactly the sort of skill a player should develop. Maybe kickoff return should just work both ways - call it Special Teamer or some such.
I also think Pass Block is an excellent skill - interceptions are so rare that they don't pose that effective a deterrent to a passing game as it's so easy to create the lane.
Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2007 5:34 am
by Jural
Kick-Off return allows you to legitimately cover the field with only one back man, or it can be used to put a re-inforcement in the wide or somewhere else. It may not be as good as block or dauntless, etc, but it's darn nice.
Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 1:31 am
by bouf
I think that Kick Off return is one of the best skills going for a thrower/runner...
It lets a receiving team controle the pace for the ball. If you want it on the line so you can cage you just got three steps closer... If you want it deep so you can long pass... you just got three steps closer.
I had a skaven thrower with Kick off return and Accurate... Think of having a MA 10 thrower (if only for one turn)
K-OR has only one problem and that is if you are winning, you can't use it... but K-OR is a working counter to one of the most intellegent skills in the game... Kick. and kicks problem is that if you are loosing you can't use it...
These type of tactical skills are great and make BB into a strategy game rather than a game of chance...
I'd back this "New Skill" but it does seem a bit weak...
I'd make it three squares... but, as stated, you may not enter the LOS nor violate the 2/WZ limitation. but maybe combine it with K-OR to make K-OR a little more viable... Rename it as tactician... and set the fluff as "Reading Plays and judging the wind" etc...
Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 2:20 am
by mattgslater
Kick-Off Return is powerful enough given its Runner/Thrower orientation and general accessibility. I'd want to keep this a separate skill, but 3 squares sounds like a good idea (after all, that keeps it similar to Kick-Off Return and Pass Block).
Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 4:17 pm
by Stu
I posted these two ages ago if anyone's interested in another take on it. Never thought that much about how they would work, let alone tested them though.
Read Offense (general trait)
This player is skilled at reading the offense's formation and shifting his own placing to counter their plans. Immediately after the receiving team has set up, any player on the kicking team with this skill may move up to three squares. They may not move in such a way that their team's set up becomes illegal. They do have to dodge, cannot go for it and cannot be shadowed. A player moved in this way may not use the kick skill on the subsequent kick off.
Alternatively,
Call Defensive Audible (general trait)
This player is skilled at reading the offense's formation and can try to counter it by shouting out last second instructions to his teammates. Immediately after the receiving team has set up, so long as a player with this trait has been set up by the kicking team, the coach of the kicking team may move a single player, of his choice, up to three squares. They may not move in such a way that their team's set up becomes illegal. They do have to dodge, cannot go for it and cannot be shadowed. A player moved in this way may not use the kick skill on the subsequent kick off.
Originally posted
here.
Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 9:21 am
by Kheldar
I like call defensive audible. In the current LRB i would make it a passing skill.
Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 11:04 am
by stormmaster1
Defensive audible could be a passing skill where any player could move 2 squares. Read offence could be a general skill where the player moves 3. Could be very useflu as a very effective general tactic is to overload one side of the field on offence. Could be very useful if on a big guy 1 square behind LOS: could then move to where the opposition players are, and make their 1st turn very difficult.
Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 5:05 pm
by mattgslater
Those traits would have to be toned down to be made into skills; maybe Defensive Audible (or just Audible?) should be one square, and should come with the same requirements as Kick in terms of being off the line and not in the WZ. The first one is simply a slightly more powerful version of the skill I was playing with; I agree that 3 squares is best, but if it were made into a skill as opposed to a trait, the not-to-the-line rule is important.
Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 12:50 pm
by Stu
Just to point out, I wouldn't suggest they both be included, I just wasn't sure which one I liked best when I posted them the first time around. I think I prefer the second one now though.
mattgslater wrote:Those traits would have to be toned down to be made into skills; maybe Defensive Audible (or just Audible?) should be one square, and should come with the same requirements as Kick in terms of being off the line and not in the WZ. The first one is simply a slightly more powerful version of the skill I was playing with; I agree that 3 squares is best, but if it were made into a skill as opposed to a trait, the not-to-the-line rule is important.
Having the same requirements as kick makes sense, as does not being able to move onto the line. Could be too powerful if you could move your stand firm+guard big guy onto the line. I do think it needs to be 3 squares though, so a player can cover the whole width of the central area of the pitch. Also 3 squares seems to be the standard for this sort of thing, as in Pass Block and Kick-off Return.
I would probably change it to something like this then...
Code: Select all
Call Audible (Passing)
This player is skilled at reading the offense's formation and can try to counter it by shouting out last second instructions to his teammates. Immediately after the receiving team has set up, if a player with this skill has been set up by the kicking team, not in a wide zone or on the line of scrimmage, the coach of the kicking team may move a single player of his choice up to three squares. The player may not move onto the line of scrimmage and the team's set-up must still be legal at the end of their move. They do have to dodge, cannot go for it and cannot be shadowed. A player moved in this way may not use the kick skill on the subsequent kick off.
Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 2:04 am
by BloodBowlGuy
Assclown:
with this skill, everytime you make a successful roll (a dodge or picking up the ball) you must reroll the result. a failure means you are an assclown.
assclown = useless person.
Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 2:22 pm
by Rituro
BloodBowlGuy wrote:Assclown:
with this skill, everytime you make a successful roll (a dodge or picking up the ball) you must reroll the result. a failure means you are an assclown.
assclown = useless person.
...and the point of writing this was...?