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House Ruled Dwarf team

Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 12:47 pm
by fen
Ok, well first of all. This Dwarf team has been tested for a couple of seasons before I posted it up here (2 teams with approx 30 odd matches, so not masses of testing but still some). The idea of the team was to recreate a team that fitted more with the fluff of the Dwarf teams instead of the reality. But not replace the Dwarf team for the die hard fans.

As it turns out, here it's replaced the Dwarf team because it's considered to be a lot more fun.

I'll break the team down into segments.
The whole team is based on the younger more enthusiastic Dwarfs instead of the Official team. Which is based on the Longbeard template and longbeards are old men even in Dwarf terms. Major point here - I do not agree with the AG2 philosophy that many coaches have mistakenly assumed that Dwarfs have. The official team has Longbeards (now called Blockers) in the lineman role. Longbeards are heavily armoured old men, that's why they are AG2. The younger players (The Runner and Blitzer) are more like Dwarfs would actually be - AG3.

Dwarf Linemen - Yes, linemen.
The Dwarf Lineman in this line up is a younger, faster and more lightly armoured individual than in the standard team. They're more reckless (by Dwarf standards) but capable of learning the same slow grinding game.

0-16 Lineman 5 3 3 8 Block, Thick Skull - GS - 60K

Removing Block from them was toyed with, but we erred on the side of caution. They would have been 50K without Block, personally I think that would be better - but I did not want to gut the team so played it safe.

Dwarf Blitzers
The Dwarf Blitzers are the workhorses of this team build, because a section of the team was gutted and removed to make room for other positionals it's fallen to the Dwarf Blitzers to cover most of the work instead. As a consequence we upped the number of them.

0-4 Blitzer 6 3 3 9 Block, Thick Skull - GS - 90K

The Specials
This is where the team deviates even further from the original template. There are no Runners or Troll Slayers. Instead there are Secret Weapon users.

0-1 Dwarf Looney 5 3 2 9 Chainsaw, No Hands, Secret Weapon, Thick Skull, - GS - 70K

0-1 Dwarf Bomber 5 3 2 8 Bombardier, No Hands, Secret Weapon, Thick Skull - GP - 60K

0-1 Dwarf Bazooka 6 3 3 8 Thick Skull, Sure Hands, Strong Arm, Hail Mary Pass, Secret Weapon - GP - 70K

0-1 Deathroller 4 7 1 10 - Break Tackle, Dirty Player, Juggernaut, Mighty Blow, No Hands, Secret Weapon - S - 160K

Rerolls: 50K
Star Players: Same as Dwarf team.

Special Rules
Because of the high proportion of Secret weapons in the team, we rule that they may induce them @50K but must spend two bribes (100K) for any bribe rolls involving the Deathroller.

In simple layout here's how the team looks:

Code: Select all

Dwarf Cheaters
0-16 Lineman     5 3 3 8  - Block, Thick Skull                                                           - GS - 60K
0-4  Blitzer     6 3 3 9  - Block, Thick Skull                                                           - GS - 90K
0-1  Looney      5 3 2 9  - Chainsaw, No Hands, Secret Weapon, Thick Skull                               - GS - 70K
0-1  Bomber      5 3 2 8  - Bombardier, No Hands, Secret Weapon, Thick Skull                             - GP - 60K
0-1  Bazooka     6 3 3 8  - Thick Skull, Sure Hands, Strong Arm, Hail Mary Pass, Secret Weapon           - GP - 70K
0-1  Deathroller 4 7 1 10 - Break Tackle, Dirty Player, Juggernaut, Mighty Blow, No Hands, Secret Weapon - S  - 160K
Rerolls: 50K
Star Players:  Barik Farblast, Grim Ironjaw, Flint Churnblade, Zara, Morg & Boomer
While it's not completely balanced yet, the team is a lot of fun to play against and can be altered further to taste. I personally think that as the linemen are MA5 and AG3 they don't need Block to start with and could be 50K. They're capable of scoring TDs at a reasonable pace and as such can skill up quickly if desired.
The Blitzers are great fun (They possibly could be 80K), they work like a slower but tougher human Blitzer and provide the team with quick access to Guard or Tackle (as the league dictates) and the Special weapons are just a complete riot to play with. So much so that it is being considered that they could be increased to 0-2 (except for the Roller) - but there are some minor concerns about the team being able to field 3 chainsaws. Me? I can't see the problem, chainsaws break. :lol:

Regardless, the team is very popular to play with and against. Enjoy and remember, this is the House Rules section. In no way is it an attempt to replace the existing Dwarf team, just to create one that's more fun for both players in a match.

Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 4:22 pm
by mattgslater
Looks fun to play. Balance-wise it doesn't scream at me as problematic, but I haven't thought about it long enough to have more than a prima facie opinion on that. Not very fluffy, though: Runners and Slayers seem essential to me for fluff if you're playing in the Warhammer world (if not, then not), but more important I just don't see Dwarfs with the same/better MA by comparison to Orcs and other bashy teams: Dwarfs are supposed to be slow of foot (short legs and all) and 5, as mediocre as that sounds, is just too much for a default on that team race.

Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 6:54 pm
by fen
You turn the Dwarfs into MA4 and they might as well be AG2. Which means they might as well be Blockers. Which basically stops the whole point of the team - which was a request by several coaches I play with to come up with a Dwarf team that didn't use Blockers.

The MA4 (and AG2) isn't a Dwarf characteristic, it's the Characteristic of the Dwarf Blocker. If you look at the positions in the Dwarf team you'll notice that 3/4 = MA5+ and 1/2 = AG3.

But because the Longbeard was assigned the lineman position people are deluded into thinking that is the Dwarf standard. It's not, Longbeards are very old men by Dwarf standards. That's in part why they're so slow and clumsy.

Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 7:14 pm
by Snew
You know, I don't think I'd play anything else. I love Orcs but these Blitzers are better. All players have Block. Linemen are the same speed and have Thick Skull. And the icing on the cake are the secret weapons you can have fun with.

I don't really see any reason not to play them.

Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 12:47 pm
by stormmaster1
I like it. focus on the cheating and having fun without replacing the current team. The one thing i'd suggest would be a Ma6 player, so you could be a little faster, a little more reckless. I'd keep the blitzers 90k, and try not to make the team too competetive in keeping with a cheater team.

Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 1:27 pm
by Darkson
stormmaster1 wrote:The one thing i'd suggest would be a Ma6 player,
Am I misunderstanding you?
fen wrote:0-4 Blitzer 6 3 3 9 Block, Thick Skull - GS - 90K

Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 6:06 pm
by fen
Snew wrote:You know, I don't think I'd play anything else. I love Orcs but these Blitzers are better. All players have Block. Linemen are the same speed and have Thick Skull. And the icing on the cake are the secret weapons you can have fun with.

I don't really see any reason not to play them.
I wanted to cut Block from the linemen, but was persuaded not to. As the teams have performed well I'm trying to convince the three people playing the team that their linemen now don't need to start with Block. I'll point out how many TDs they've managed to score with Linemen now and allow them to change a skill choice to Block if they've made rolls with that given player.

The Blitzers on the other hand are staying as is, if the Linemen get weakened further then more will rest on their shoulders.

Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 6:59 pm
by Snew
How many in your league and 3 players are taking these guys? That might say something about how attractive they are.

I agree with taking Block from the Linemen. of course. :wink:

and I'd call them Orc cheaters or something non-Dwarvy. :P Just to make me feel better.

Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 7:38 pm
by jollyork
I like it. Whenever I contemplate Dwarfs my brain always thinks of the 2nd Ed Dwarfs where they were described as pioneers of SWs and loaded up on them. Now if you could just squeeze in the Killdozer!

Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 10:03 pm
by Rituro
jollyork wrote:Now if you could just squeeze in the Killdozer!
Killdozer = Deathroller?

Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 10:40 pm
by fen
Snew wrote:How many in your league and 3 players are taking these guys? That might say something about how attractive they are.
Right now it's 2 leagues with approx 50 teams between them and around 20 something coaches, the number varies depending on how people feel.

There's only 1 normal Dwarf team in that lot (for reference) and 2 Chaos Dwarf teams. Mostly because around here people just tend to say "No thanks" to the Dwarf match and there's a few roving Nurgle teams that just chew up bashy teams. I was asked to come up with a way that would stop this "Too much Block and Tackle for me" excuse while still letting the team stand up to Blodgers and develop ok. The Chainsaw was my answer and it works pretty well.

Next season the roster is now going down to 5338 Thick Skull GS 50K for the linemen. General agreement is that they no longer need to start with Block.

Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 12:26 am
by Snew
Still looks like a fun team.

Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 7:07 am
by Ziggi Abschuss
Rituro wrote:
jollyork wrote:Now if you could just squeeze in the Killdozer!
Killdozer = Deathroller?
Nope. In 2nd ed there were 2 dwarf secret weapons akin to the deathroller now.
Deathroller was the one they ever made as a mini:
Image

But the killdozer was also fun. The rules were different then as blocking didnt have the push back part. There was the push as a separate action IIRC. The Killdozer banked on this.

Ziggi

Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 10:36 am
by fen
Well the Killdozer is basically a bulldozer. So it would be better at pushing people.

Take the deathroller template tweak it a tiny bit... Drop MB for Frenzy, swap DP for Stand Firm. Those combined with Juggernaut should represent it's ability to shove people about and such...

...and Voila:
0-1 Killdozer 4 7 1 10 - Break Tackle, Frenzy, Juggernaut, No Hands, Secret Weapon, Stand Firm - S - 160K
Snew wrote:Still looks like a fun team.
It is, it really is. I seriously enjoy playing it myself. I haven't taken it into a league yet but I have played quite a lot of one offs and it's just plain fun.
It feels like the Dwarf team from the BB Fluff, overly keen on secret weapons, tough and good at BB.

Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 9:41 am
by stormmaster1
Darkson wrote:
stormmaster1 wrote:The one thing i'd suggest would be a Ma6 player,
Am I misunderstanding you?
fen wrote:0-4 Blitzer 6 3 3 9 Block, Thick Skull - GS - 90K
no i'm just going blind. I though they were regular dwarf blitzers. OK. Great team then. might give them a bash.