Our New Kick-off Table

[plasmoid]

Hi all,
in our league we decided to revise the kick off table. We wanted to alter the results that can more or less win a game for a team. We also wanted to make cheerleaders and assistant coaches a little more interesting.
This is what we came up with - in shorthand:

2 Riot: A riot now lasts only 1 turn, but roll a d6: 1-3 move turn marker 1 space back, 4-6 move turn marker 1 space forward.

3 Get the Reff: Winner gets to argue the call on a 4+.

4 Perfect Defense: As before, except that 3 players on the LOS may not be moved.

5 Cheering Fans: Don't add FF to the roll, only cheerleaders. The reroll can be used on a turn where you had already used a team reroll. (Naturally, not to reroll a result a third time).

6 Bad Kick: No change.

7 Change the Weather: No change

8 Quick Snap: No change

9 Brilliant Coaching: Same as cheering fans (but add only coaches to roll).

10 Blitz: As before, except that 3 players on the LOS may not take an action.

11 Throw a Rock: No change.

12 Pitch Invasion: As before, except: Treat any casualty as badly hurt. After the pitch invasion, the invading fans are expelled - treat as FF:0 for the rest of the match.

Martin

[Valen]

ok

Riot = Not sure why you would move the turn marker back?
Get The Ref = Like it
Perfect Def = Also good
Cheering fans = Like the dropping of FF
Blitz = Surely the players on the los would be the main ones too benefit from a real blitz?
Pitch Invasion = I definatley like this, the pitch invasion casualties having no long term effect on the team is good.

All in all, very nice job

[Mestari]

My comments:

2 Riot: A riot now lasts only 1 turn, but roll a d6: 1-3 move turn marker 1 space back, 4-6 move turn marker 1 space forward.


I'd much rather see it as d3 lost turns.


3 Get the Reff: Winner gets to argue the call on a 4+.

This one I like

4 Perfect Defense: As before, except that 3 players on the LOS may not be moved.

I don't like this. Unnecessarily complex and I see no real benefit.


5 Cheering Fans: Don't add FF to the roll, only cheerleaders. The reroll can be used on a turn where you had already used a team reroll. (Naturally, not to reroll a result a third time).

No, definitely no second reroll for a turn. I'd vote for no change.

6 Bad Kick: No change.

7 Change the Weather: No change

8 Quick Snap: No change

9 Brilliant Coaching: Same as cheering fans (but add only coaches to roll).

Same as with Cheering fans.

10 Blitz: As before, except that 3 players on the LOS may not take an action.

I see the reason for this but I don't necessarily agree...

11 Throw a Rock: No change.

12 Pitch Invasion: As before, except: Treat any casualty as badly hurt. After the pitch invasion, the invading fans are expelled - treat as FF:0 for the rest of the match.

I like the FF0-part, but otherwise I'd say no change.

[campaigner]

2 Riot: A riot now lasts only 1 turn, but roll a d6: 1-3 move turn marker 1 space back, 4-6 move turn marker 1 space forward.

3 Get the Reff: Winner gets to argue the call on a 4+.

4 Perfect Defense: As before, except that 3 players on the LOS may not be moved.

5 Cheering Fans: Don't add FF to the roll, only cheerleaders. The reroll can be used on a turn where you had already used a team reroll. (Naturally, not to reroll a result a third time).

9 Brilliant Coaching: Same as cheering fans (but add only coaches to roll).

10 Blitz: As before, except that 3 players on the LOS may not take an action.

12 Pitch Invasion: As before, except: Treat any casualty as badly hurt. After the pitch invasion, the invading fans are expelled - treat as FF:0 for the rest of the match.

Martin

hi,

2: ermm, why would you move the turnmaker back?

3: that's sounds okay to me

4: sounds good

5: it's called cheering FANS, so it should not exclude them me thinks
about the 2 TRR per turn thing, I'm not sure, I would say no.

9: same as 5, except for the fans... FF is not added I think in official rules

10: hmmm... I think blitz is the most powerful/annoying thing on the table, but maybe there is a way to rule it other than that, bc those flings would surely like to get away from those Chaos Warriors

12: I'm not sure if any ref could expel BB fans from the match, except if he maybe has a retinue of ogre veterans... but until that: no

c

[McDeth]

I introduced a kick off event on mine with more options , one is where the Ref lost his watch and the coaches argued with the ref the time. The d6 Coach roll plus assistant coaches meant that the winning coach could decide to move the turn markers forward 1 or backward 1 as the ref was totally confused and went with their advice.

It was however totally independant from Riot.

viewtopic.php?p=87639&highlight=kick+table#87639

[Valen]

That sound cool, that should replace riot

[plasmoid]

Hi all,
thanks for the response
I few explanations:

Riot:
We wanted the riot to not always benefit a team which plays the clock. With the new rules then sometimes a turn is lost (bad for the team who is about to get the ball), and sometimes a turn is gained (bad for the team about to play defense).
As for a rationale, maybe the time-taking ref gets confused

Cheering Fans and Brilliant Coaching:
In our league we've found that nobody can really be bothered to buy coaches/cheerleaders. Not ever. We wanted them to be better, so there would actually be a potential benefit when you inflate your rating with them.
So far experience with the extra reroll has been good, but we're keeping our eyes on this for the whole season.

Perfect Defense and Blitz:
We simply found these to have too big an impact on the game - so we wanted to make them less powerful. It works very well (so far).

And actually, I think that it fits the concept of a "blitz" very nicely.
If you want to get good effect from a blitz result, then you have to have put more than 3 players on the LOS. That is the way for yoyr team to overwhelm/blitz the other teams front line

Pitch Invasion:
Restricting the injuries to badly hurts was done for this reason:
It is bad enough that it can lose you a game.
It shouldn't be able to lose you the season.

Martin

[Ragnar Granit]

Riot:
We wanted the riot to not always benefit a team which plays the clock.

I like this one. It adds to the confusion but in a nice way. Besides, I think some of the Kickoff Table results can tip the game too much in one direction. However, this one tips the scales just a bit.

Cheering Fans and Brilliant Coaching:
In our league we've found that nobody can really be bothered to buy coaches/cheerleaders.

I think we have the same problem in our leagues. With us cheerleaders and assistant coaches are given as league awards but I think I am the only one who has actually bought cheerleaders (had a lot of cash, wanted some chicks hanging around the team )

Perfect Defense and Blitz:
We simply found these to have too big an impact on the game - so we wanted to make them less powerful. It works very well (so far).

Well, I think perfect defence does not affect the game that much (although I have always wondered what the attacking LOS guys are thinking as the defending teams move their LOS squad to aside or to nice whacking positions...) However, since both teams have roughly the same amount of attack drives in a game, blitz can really turn the tables. Chaotic - yes. Blood Bowlish - yes. But it can get frustrating after playing a tactically solid game so far and then lose the game due to a random event.

(Been there, done that... can't remember most of it)

But I guess there has been a LOT of discussion on these things before in this forum, so I won't go on.

Pitch Invasion:
Restricting the injuries to badly hurts was done for this reason:

I don't think Casualties from the Pitch invasion are that common. Are they? At least in our games I don't think more than one or two players have become casualties as a result of that kickoff event.

[Ziggi Abschuss]

Good work!

I have to say I like most of your changes a lot. I agree that get the ref can be murderous at times and can affect team progression in a major way.

And I agree with you on cheerleaders and assistants. I don't think any one has bought these in our league (we give them awards in our league). Also, I personally have never retired a player, as they tend to die instead of getting injuries.

I think I'll join forces with Ragnar here and try to get some of these through our leagues rules board after this season.

Ziggi

[Circular_Logic]

Pitch Invasion:
Restricting the injuries to badly hurts was done for this reason:

I don't think Casualties from the Pitch invasion are that common. Are they? At least in our games I don't think more than one or two players have become casualties as a result of that kickoff event.

Well, in my FUMBBL-carrer I had 5 PI in 4 games, causing a total of 25 injuries, stunning 6 player, KOing 13, BHed 4, SIed one and killed another one.
So I would be great. I would even reduce it to KO as a maximum. It´s bad enough. Or give the injury-rolls a -2 mod.

[Munkey]

We just tried using a table with additional results but despite all the different events nothing really happened, I was considering going back to a slightly toned down original so this thread was very well timed, there's some great ideas here.

2 Riot: A riot now lasts only 1 turn, but roll a d6: 1-3 move turn marker 1 space back, 4-6 move turn marker 1 space forward.

Thought about this a bit and I quite like it, was heading for D3 turns myself. I thought I might try a halfway house: 1-2 Back one turn, 3-4 forward 1 turn, 5 forward two turns, 6 forward 3 turns.

3 Get the Reff: Winner gets to argue the call on a 4+.

IMO this was the biggest thing that needed changing, saw this solution elsewhere as well and think it's probably the best way to balance this roll.

4 Perfect Defense: As before, except that 3 players on the LOS may not be moved.

Never really had a problem with this but it makes sense and is consistent with Blitz, see below.

5 Cheering Fans: Don't add FF to the roll, only cheerleaders. The reroll can be used on a turn where you had already used a team reroll. (Naturally, not to reroll a result a third time).

We have no cheerleaders either but even with the change to re-roll, which i don't really like I don't think i'd buy any so I don't think I'd change this one.

9 Brilliant Coaching: Same as cheering fans (but add only coaches to roll).

See Cheering Fans above.

10 Blitz: As before, except that 3 players on the LOS may not take an action.

I agree that Blitz needs toning down, was going for the only one player may have a [Blitz] action option.

One question: do you mean only 3 players on the LOS have to not move or that all players on the LOS cannot move? The latter would mean that if you stacked the line to overwhelm the opponent then a Blitz would be less effective - more tactical IMHO. (Also fits the 'reality' of a Blitz coming from the backfield).

12 Pitch Invasion: As before, except: Treat any casualty as badly hurt. After the pitch invasion, the invading fans are expelled - treat as FF:0 for the rest of the match.

No real problems with Pitch invasion although we may make the roll D3, but TBH our last couple of pitch invasions have been tame.

[plasmoid]

Hi all,
looks like response to most of these ideas has been pretty good, with the possible exception of the super-reroll for cheering fans/brilliant coaching.

I would like to make coaches and cheerleaders more important, but perhaps winning these rolls should give something else instead.
Perhaps the ability to give 1 skill to a player for the next drive only?
Perhaps something else?

Suggestions?
Martin

[Piepgrass]

How about giving all the players on teh winning side of a brilliant coaching/chering fans the PRO skill temporary for the next 1d3 turn (or til the end of the half)

Poul

[plasmoid]

Hi Munkey,
sorry about the slow reply.

You asked:
One question: do you mean only 3 players on the LOS have to not move or that all players on the LOS cannot move? The latter would mean that if you stacked the line to overwhelm the opponent then a Blitz would be less effective - more tactical IMHO. (Also fits the 'reality' of a Blitz coming from the backfield).

The rules is that 3 players on the LOS are not allowed to move, so you need to stack the line in order to get good effect from a blitz roll.

Martin

[Munkey]

We've tried it using my interpretation, which works quite well but has the opposite effect to your rules, if you stack the line to overwhelm the opponent a Blitz will be less effective.

This has had the desired effect but I should note that we were considering nerfing it down to one player makes a Blitz action anyway, which is effectively what this does.