Serious Look At Extra Arms and Two Heads.

[Tnouge Teid Trog]

In my opinion Extra Arms and Two Heads are two of the most underused and useless skills in Blood Bowl. Often I have the urge to give a guy one of these mutations just to have a cool mini, but the powergamer inside always persuades my not to.

I may not be doing all my math precisely correct, but this looks accurate to me .
For an agility 3 player dodge/catch adds a 25% to succeed, while these traits only add 16.66…%.
Also, in comparison VLL adds +1 movement and interception, while these traits add +1AG to only one type of roll, so I’d like to present you with a few options.

#1: Bah, they work perfectly fine as is, and I often give them to my players.

#2: When the player attempts a catch (interception?)/dodge he first rolls a die first. If the result of the die roll is higher than his AG, then the Extra Armed/ Two Headed player is treated as having an AG equal to the die roll result when making this catch/dodge. (Since the average die roll is 3.5 this variation is actually slightly worse than it is now, but I like the 50/50 shot at a high AG. This variation is better the worse your AG is.)

#3: When the player attempts a catch (interception?)/dodge he first rolls a die first. The player adds half the result of the die roll, rounded down, (1=0; 2-3=+1; 4-5=+2; 6=+3) to the roll when making this catch/dodge. (This will add +1.5 to the catch/dodge roll on average. This puts it on par with catch/dodge, but with a little randomness.)

#4: +2 to catch/dodge roll. (simple and adds +33% to succeed, making it better than catch/dodge).

I was going to make this a poll, but I assume nobodies going to read this, and I’d like discussion instead of voiceless votes. I hope this post is taken seriously and not passed over as a useless houserule.

[gallowin]

Both of these skills are very usefull because they go towards countering tacklezone penalties but since they are mutations and only a select few can get these on a doubles and even fewer players would utilize these (Chaos Warrior with two heads?!?) you'll not it taken very often.

I was schooled in a tournament where someone used Hakflem Skuttlespike by catching in multiple tacklezones, dodging into a few more tacklezones, and then walking away for an easy score. I had the same idea you had about the skills till someone used them against me.

[Tnouge Teid Trog]

Thanks for the response.

I've tried adding these traits to skaven, but they don't add much. Hakflem has 4AG and both skills (in theory 5AG). He would be much better if he actually had the 5AG instead of the two traits. both traits added together don't even equal 1AG. Any player with 5AG is dangerous, but Hakflem is slightly weaker agenst Hyp Gaze, Interceptions, and anything else not catch or dodge related.

As for Hakflem. If I where making a Gutter Runner and had two doubles I wouldn't chose either of those skills. I'd pick NoS, VLL, Foul Apperance, catch (doesn't even need doubles), leap, sprint, ect...

Haklem could have been a one turner with VLL and sprint, but intstead he gets a weakend +1AG from 2 traits.

Hope I didn't sound insulting, and I'd love to hear more opinions on some of these options.

[narkotic]

Just make the "weak" mutations being able to be picked with a normal skill roll (still only for the races eligible to take mutations). It's an easy and fuzz-free solution, no need for extra rules IMHO.

BTW, those two skills are on the BBRC 2003 Hotlist, so in 6 weeks we'll know how they will be handled.

[Tnouge Teid Trog]

thats what I get for not checking the hot list.

I'll shut up for 6 weeks then.

[Bifi]

#2: When the player attempts a catch (interception?)/dodge he first rolls a die first. If the result of the die roll is higher than his AG, then the Extra Armed/ Two Headed player is treated as having an AG equal to the die roll result when making this catch/dodge. (Since the average die roll is 3.5 this variation is actually slightly worse than it is now, but I like the 50/50 shot at a high AG. This variation is better the worse your AG is.)

#3: When the player attempts a catch (interception?)/dodge he first rolls a die first. The player adds half the result of the die roll, rounded down, (1=0; 2-3=+1; 4-5=+2; 6=+3) to the roll when making this catch/dodge. (This will add +1.5 to the catch/dodge roll on average. This puts it on par with catch/dodge, but with a little randomness.)

I think that the forum would agree that you would be introducing a new type of mechanics that would complicate things a little. Especially with player actions the flow of game should be smooth.

[Bifi]

Sorry for the double post.

[Grumbledook]

there are already suggestions on the BBRC list for this years rules review to give them both an extra bonus

Extra Arms: Extra Arms is the same as if Accurate was a doubles roll for passing skills. Allow Extra Arms to add +1 to the player's Catch (not interceptions) and Pick-Up rolls.
Two Heads: Dodge is so much better for a double choice. Allow Two Heads to add +1 to Dodge roll and Interception rolls.

so those changes might happen

[Cooper]

there are already suggestions on the BBRC list for this years rules review to give them both an extra bonus

Extra Arms: Extra Arms is the same as if Accurate was a doubles roll for passing skills. Allow Extra Arms to add +1 to the player's Catch (not interceptions) and Pick-Up rolls.
Two Heads: Dodge is so much better for a double choice. Allow Two Heads to add +1 to Dodge roll and Interception rolls.

so those changes might happen

Hadn't read the Hot list either...

Extra Arms becomes interesting this way, i still wouldn't choose Two Heads (unless i allready have VLL and Pasblock)

W

[Tim]

#2: When the player attempts a catch (interception?)/dodge he first rolls a die first. If the result of the die roll is higher than his AG, then the Extra Armed/ Two Headed player is treated as having an AG equal to the die roll result when making this catch/dodge. (Since the average die roll is 3.5 this variation is actually slightly worse than it is now, but I like the 50/50 shot at a high AG. This variation is better the worse your AG is.)

I really like this one pickup/catch rolls. I like the random bonus with a chance to end up worse ... a little like dauntless. For dodges it would be too many dice rolls for multiple dodges imo.

Just make the "weak" mutations being able to be picked with a normal skill roll (still only for the races eligible to take mutations). It's an easy and fuzz-free solution, no need for extra rules IMHO.

I like this idea as well.

[Bifi]

Just make the "weak" mutations being able to be picked with a normal skill roll (still only for the races eligible to take mutations). It's an easy and fuzz-free solution, no need for extra rules IMHO.

I like this idea as well.

Me too.

[Tnouge Teid Trog]

I happend apon the idea for agility dauntless and adding to those mutations at the same time and it clicked in my head. I'll be happy with the +1 to two different actions or the physical "skills".

[Xtreme]

Just make the "weak" mutations being able to be picked with a normal skill roll (still only for the races eligible to take mutations). It's an easy and fuzz-free solution, no need for extra rules IMHO.

BTW, those two skills are on the BBRC 2003 Hotlist, so in 6 weeks we'll know how they will be handled.

I like this idea narkotic. Just make some of the mutations available without doubles. If they were I would choose them more often just to have some unique models and players.

[bluetooth]

I like it, too. Hopefully some of the mutations are treated as normal skills soon. Figs with mutations simply look (and are) good-ah

[Alesdair]

However, I also did the maths...

Xtra-Arm is better then catch for an AG3 intercepter in no tackle zones.

If you were to turn a beastman into a defencive catcher, I'd give him Xtra-Arm on the first dubs instead of catch... passblock and NOS as the first two non-dubs skills.

NOS and Xtra-arm means that all intercepts are 5+ and catching accurate passes are 2+.
If it matters then use a TRR.