Gamesmanship

Lucien Swift · Post by **Lucien Swift** » Sat Nov 02, 2002 3:16 pm

taunting definitely is a subjective thing... if you're joking with each other, and both sides are into that sort of chatter, lay it on.... but if it's a mean-spirited, one-sided thing, that's no good... there are friends i play against where we will often double the time taken to play the game for all the boasting and bravado, and there are other friends i have who like to play a quiet, thoughtful chessmatch game instead... if they're your friends, and you know them, you'll recognize the difference and in each case meet at a common ground... assholes usually recognize what a person's comfort zoe is and then act in a way that makes them uncomfortable...

if your commish is a problem, start a new legue, fire him, etc... a commish isn't a divine ruler, he's supposed to be the guy who makes the game fun for everyone else...

honestly, it sounds like you realize there is a problem with this one guy, and not throughout your league... you may want to talk to other coaches and see if they notice it as well, and if so, act accordingly...

Zombie · Post by **Zombie** » Sat Nov 02, 2002 6:33 pm

Everything you've described sounds perfectly ok to me. Blood Bowl is a vindictive sport. Playing otherwise is going against the spirit of the game. Seems to me that you're all a bunch of pussies too concerned about the health of your players to play the game efficiently.

dakkakhan · Post by **dakkakhan** » Sat Nov 02, 2002 7:08 pm

Talk is fun, though I agree it should be two-sided. And it is pretty lame to keep talking when you are crushing someone. I have a player in my league that talks throughout, especially when he's losing....that's just comical. If you are confident enough, offer to heal a player you just squashed.

I for one, as LC and as one of the more experienced players in my league would be lined up to play a player that was a jerk to newbies. Al, someone in your league ought to teach the LC a lesson. Put a bounty on his favorite guy's head. Or boycott playing him and explain what's going on. The danger is that if he's that childish in his own league you may lose him as a coach, but I wouldn't allow good, fun coaches to leave because of him.

Darkson · Post by **Darkson** » Sat Nov 02, 2002 9:29 pm

We made the mistake of awarding SPP andleague points for Cas in our last season, which lead to lots of fouling. Now, as everyone was doing this no-one really had a problem with it (and we're all mates anyway). Unfortunatelty, our youngest coach seemed to get all the crappy dice rolls. He played humans and had 10 deaths and 4 SI's against him in a 12 games season, and often played with 9 men BEFORE niggles. We never taunted him, and near the end of the season usually apologised for Deaths and SI's.

We still played to win though (after all, there's a cup at stake).

Mestari · Post by **Mestari** » Sun Nov 03, 2002 11:21 am

Zombie wrote:Everything you've described sounds perfectly ok to me.

A surprise!

Blood Bowl is a vindictive sport. Playing otherwise is going against the spirit of the game.

Blood bowl is, no doubt about that. But the BB hobby is, in addition to playing BB, about humour, enjoyment and having a good time with other people. Yes, it's a game, and there's always the winner and the losers, and there's no need to play gentlemanbowl, limit fouling or anything, but:

1. In certain situations (against rookies and decimated teams) a good coach goes easy on his opponent
2. A good coach does not take the tauntings away from the game into personal level.

And by good I don't necessary mean succesful or victorious.

If you break 1.), then you're really an ego-tripping moron and should keep cheating in starcraft to get your kicks about being better than others. Did you always tease the kids that were smaller than you? But started whining and whimpering as soon as someone bigger was near?

If you break 2.), then, as previously stated, you really are appalling piece of low-life. Getting personal about BB? If the taunting is an inside thing that you do with your friends, it's ok. If it's part of the team and game fluff, it's ok. But if it's malevolent, uses BB only as an excuse to feel better than the rest and aims at making the other guy feel miserable, then it's not.

Seems to me that you're all a bunch of pussies too concerned about the health of your players to play the game efficiently.

If I'd play the game any more efficiently, I wouldn't lose at all.

It wouldn't hurt your cynical bad-ass web-image if you'd admit that these two points are valid:
-Crushing rookies or decimated teams is a case of appalling egotripping.
-Hurting the other coach personally, on purpose, by taunting has nothing to do with good playing habits, or with the spirit of Blood Bowl.

-Teemu

sean newboy · Post by **sean newboy** » Sun Nov 03, 2002 12:06 pm

Couldnt have said it better myself.

Post by **DoubleSkulls** » Sun Nov 03, 2002 2:06 pm

Mestari wrote:Blood bowl is, no doubt about that. But the BB hobby is, in addition to playing BB, about humour, enjoyment and having a good time with other people. Yes, it's a game, and there's always the winner and the losers, and there's no need to play gentlemanbowl, limit fouling or anything, but:

1. In certain situations (against rookies and decimated teams) a good coach goes easy on his opponent
2. A good coach does not take the tauntings away from the game into personal level.

Absolutely.

Ian

Deathwing · Post by **Deathwing** » Sun Nov 03, 2002 2:13 pm

A right hander often works wonders.

Snew · Post by **Snew** » Sun Nov 03, 2002 2:23 pm

I almost wish I could eliminate replies from certain posters but then I wouldn't know what was said to rile everyone else up.

Nice post Mestari.

vorner23 · Post by **vorner23** » Sun Nov 03, 2002 4:32 pm

I think the difference is playing an winning graciously and doing the same when you lose.

There's a difference between laughing with your opponent and laughing at him. The use of taunting is fine as long as its funny. To laugh after you've killed 4 of a coaches players is just childish. You'll soon find opponents avoiding you. Predominately this is a game.... played for fun. When people lose sight of this then they become a coach to avoid.

About fouling being against the spirit of the good gamer is rubbish. The rules penalise you enough if you continue to foul. The Ref will get you sooner or later. If you don't like fouling don't do it back, simple answer. Nothing wrong with attempting to kill an entire team, thats part of the object isn't it? Just don't be a Bat about it. If you're lucky or unlucky at least have the decency to admit it.

Respect.... and focus!!! That's what made grasshopper a legend!

Al the Rat · Post by **Al the Rat** » Sun Nov 03, 2002 5:58 pm

Yeah I agree with that Vorner, the difference is about graciousness in victory and defeat. I also agree that fouling isn't against the spirit of the game, though I do think that gratuitous fouling in order to crush an opponent is a step too far. I also find fouling when the ball is home clear for a TD petty and vindictive.

Mestari has it right though, the hobby is about fun and entertainment, it is not about winning at all costs.

Joaquim · Post by **Joaquim** » Sun Nov 03, 2002 7:41 pm

Well....

I also find fouling when the ball is home clear for a TD petty and vindictive.

If the ball is home clear for a TD in YOUR EZ... I guess you've a good excuse!!...

On the other hand, in a league, a good coach, without any consideration with newbies and all, would keep hurting a "near death" team... after all that team should be playing somebody else next time!!!!!!!!!

Perhaps we should be more professional in this.... I don't know about american football and rugby, but here (in Portugal) you see soccer players hitting each other hard, taunting highly personal and then having fun together at the bar.....

As most of my games are "in family" there is a lot of "personal" taunting going... but as everybody knows that is only to make you lost your focus... you just try to keep it, hard - sometimes!!...

And, sure, if you can you just fight back.... of course, all this has some limits, because if you cross... you lost more than the game!!!

I guess it's all part of the "Inside BB"....

Post by **Dave** » Sun Nov 03, 2002 9:16 pm

way to go Mestari !!!

Zombie · Post by **Zombie** » Mon Nov 04, 2002 1:11 am

Of course i agree with all those points Teemu. Never said anything to the contrary.

And like i said, we don't tease in my league either, especially not when winning.

Edit: Oh, and why is everyone cheering for Teemu when he hasn't made a single new point here? We all already agreed with that, it's not like it's anything new for any of us.

Zombie · Post by **Zombie** » Mon Nov 04, 2002 1:15 am

vorner23 wrote:There's a difference between laughing with your opponent and laughing at him. The use of taunting is fine as long as its funny. To laugh after you've killed 4 of a coaches players is just childish. You'll soon find opponents avoiding you. Predominately this is a game.... played for fun. When people lose sight of this then they become a coach to avoid.

This i have to disagree with. There are leagues where taunting goes on forever and you're not accepted in the group if you don't do it constantly. You guys need to recognize that such leagues exist. The problem is when only a minority of coaches act that way, going against the culture of the league.

vorner23 wrote:About fouling being against the spirit of the good gamer is rubbish. The rules penalise you enough if you continue to foul. The Ref will get you sooner or later. If you don't like fouling don't do it back, simple answer. Nothing wrong with attempting to kill an entire team, thats part of the object isn't it? Just don't be a Bat about it. If you're lucky or unlucky at least have the decency to admit it.

This, i absolutely agree with!