Missing teams

[GalakStarscraper]

I know, I've been a grumpy gus lately and I haven't liked much of anything.

Galak, I do agree with Mestari and that is why I don't like this team. Did you suddenly just forget what pain snotlings were?

No Pariah, I didn't ... however I think you did ... I actually played Snotlings under the old rules AND these rules ... oh wait ... maybe you missed that in rant mode ... these Snots ARE NOT the same ones that won the Orion cup... MAJORLY changed rules.

The OLD Snotlings got 0-5 extra per a drive. They had TZ when you dodged into them. They only had a +1 to injury and 1 band passing penalty, and the team allowed you to have 32 total players.

LOOK again at the rules before ranting ... thanks. I understand you've been majorly grumpy lately, but at least be grumpy for the right reasons okay ... you're starting to scream without even realizing the topic. You went off on the Vampire thread and were discussing the Old World team. FOCUS my friend ...FOCUS.

Galak

[DaImp]

I can't coment on how the snotling team played as I have never tried them, or played against them. But that really is not a concern for me right now - I am just more interested in getting a bunch of (hopefully) amusingly evil snotling miniatures to paint.
I want the minis first, the team rules can be sorted out later! Chances are the rules for the team will change shortly after being released anyhow!

[Ghost of Pariah]

Hey, I have plenty of focus! I said the Vamps sucked too! I don't like many of the new teams at all. That was the point. I'm not going to post a new thread for each team.

Anyway, none of that makes this an Ogre team. Show me the OGRE starting line up? Remember that after the season starts you will be paying 200K for rerolls so you better buy at least 2 or 3 of those, then you also need some fan factor if you plan on buying more Ogres later on and to replce the dead snots, so you should get at least a 7 FF. That's 270K - 370K spent and no ogres yet!

THIS IS A SNOTLING TEAM

[GalakStarscraper]

Fine, Pariah ...

I give ... sorry.

YOU SHOW me the OGRE team that work with the 11 starting and up to 16 allowed and is BALANCED.

The last Ogre team was 8 starting/12 maximum ... that's not going to happen again ... so you show me the balanced roster that is 11 starting and 16 maximum.

If you take the 3rd edition Ogre team a starting roster was:
8 Ogres
4 FF
NO RE-ROLLS

with this roster you could have
6 Ogres
5 Snotlings
8 FF
1 Re-roll

So there you asked me to show you an OGRE starting roster for this team and there it is ... compare it to the Ogre starting team from 3rd edition ... its not much different. Lately, no offense, you just fly off the handle when anything new is mentioned. Sorry Pariah, I just don't understand the rage.

Galak

[Ghost of Pariah]

I have no rage. Not flying off the ahndle either.
What is this Blood Bowl Central? If I disagree with you I am being irrational and in a rage?

So you are going to start this team with only 11 players? You say that thses snots are very weak so that would surely be a mistake. Also with rerolls costing 200K after the team starts only 1 reroll doesn't seem like a good idea either.

It's hard to agree with anything you are saying, Galak. You say the snots are really toned down yet they have right stuff and the ogres have TTM. The snots only cost 20K. Doesn't seem too bad to me.

Then you seem to think that 6 ogres makes this an ogre team. Hmmn. Does that mean that the Goblin team is really a Troll team? I don't get it.

You also say that this team doesn't add alot of new rules but you folow it with a paragraph of new rules for a new trait. Huh? Then you change the current rules by allowing ogres to use rerolls. Looks like alot of changes to me.

The team you presented is a way to get 6 ogres but would that team be able to do anything but field 6 ogres? Nobody is going to start with a lineup like that. This team will be played as a snotling team.

[DaFoola]

Bring Back the Half-Orcs (or the Slann)!

Oh, oh .... what he said ... what he said!

Galak

I had a feeling you might say that. Dug the article on the H-Os in House Rulez, btw.

Just to add to the Ogre/Snotling debate -
I agree with Pariah, though not in the same tone , that the team you propose is a bit too much of a Snotling team. Six ogres seems like too few on a team that is supposed to be an Ogre team - sure, the Chaos Dwarf team has a max of 6 CDs, but if one counts the Bull Centaurs, a full team is half CD (6 Blockers, 2 Centaurs) and half Hobgoblin. IMHO it would be better to have 8 ogres as a possibility for a fully developed team, with rerolls either where they are or at 90k.

For a while, I was going to agree with the idea of putting goblins or 6337 humans on the team, but the more I actually Think about it, the more I realize that snotties just make more sense.

So what about:
0-8 Ogres
0-10 Snots
90k rerolls
?

[Ithilkir]

Well I might be starting a PBeM/Jave Client Ogre team only league and came up with the following Ogre team

Code: Select all

Qty    Position                Mv St Ag Av   Skills & Traits          Cost       Skill Groups 
0-12   Ogre Lineman            5  4  2  9    Bone Head, Thick Skull   100,000    Gn, St 
0-6    Positional Ogres 
-      Ogre Blocker            5  5  2  9    Bone Head, Mighty Blow   120,000    Gn, St 
                                             Thick Skull 
-      Ogre Blitzer            6  4  2  9    Bone Head, Break Tackle  120,000    Gn, St 
                                             Thick Skull 

* You can only have a total of 6 positional Ogres on the team. eg 3 blockers and 3 blitzers, or 5 blockers and 1 blitzer 

Re-Roll: 100,000 
Starting Team Gold: 1,500,000

This is NOT balanced compared to general rosters, this is only balanced in an all ogre league

TTM was removed simply because of no team mates to throw. No re-rolls allowed on Big Guys was removed for this team only. If I was to add goblins or snotlings to the roster, then I'd up the positional players to 8, add in a thrower position (5428, Bone Head, TTM, Pass, 120k) and allow goblins or snotlings to be added to the team as positional players.

Going by 2e fluff however (I'm a firm believer in sticking to fluff) there were only Ogre blitzers and blockers, and the Oldheim Ogres did import some human throwing and kicking talent for the last NAF season before collapse (we never find out how they did...).

An all ogre team will not be balanced in general leagues without serious fudging. But then, they shouldn't be balanced. They SHOULD be weaker than any of the other rosters (halfings/goblins excluded), the problem is having a team filled with Strength 5 players being anything other than unbalanced.

------------------------------------

Back on topic...

I miss the old Skeleton team from 2e, though the Khemri to me is near it and will suffice. I'd like to see special books much like the Codexes/Warhammer Armies books though themed for Blood Bowl (Playbook: Chaos anyone?) that expands on the teams, so the Chaos book could have a Beastman, marauder, and various other chaos themed team rosters.. Humans could have Araby, Kislev, brigand etc etc...

But getting sidetracked. Unless for a special purpose or league, I honestly don't think it needs expanding. We need an advanced campaign system however

[Ghost of Pariah]

If I make an ogre team I would (gasp!) add extra rules! The most horrible thing that could occur! Extra rules?! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'll see what I can come with but I have to admit I'm not that enthusiastic about it. I know all I'll hear is "You had to add extra rules." or "That's not simple enough." Even though I think that's what titchy does.

Give me a couple days and I'll post something for the BBRC to boo! at.

[DaFoola]

the problem is having a team filled with Strength 5 players being anything other than unbalanced.

Exactly. How the hell can a team of ST5 players be made really weak? Seems difficult, and BoneHead alone doesn't seem like it would suffice.

I'd like to see special books much like the Codexes/Warhammer Armies books though themed for Blood Bowl (Playbook: Chaos anyone?) that expands on the teams, so the Chaos book could have a Beastman, marauder, and various other chaos themed team rosters.. Humans could have Araby, Kislev, brigand etc etc...

This is a CAPITAL idea. Something with sections on famous teams (maybe with rosters like in the 2ed Star Players book), painting guides, tactical suggestions, and rules for experimental teams and/or this-race-only leagues (Clan Bowl, Tribal Leeg, etc.).

My enthousiasm does, however, come with the caveat that at least a minimum of team information would have to remain in the core rulebook (basically what's in there now), rather than the playbooks being "supplements" that are more or less necessary for playing the game (see Star Players, Blood Bowl Companion, Death Zone). I have no doubt that, with the enthousiasm for fluff and other materials the average BB player has, GW would be able to make money on this kind of book.

[Ghost of Pariah]

This is what a thunk up while I sat here watching football and debating about ordering a pizza. At first glance it looks good to me and building a roster is tricky but I’m sure it still needs tweaks. Everyone having ST 4 is minor concern to me. I think bonehead is going to off-set that. There isn't much difference between ST 4 and ST 3 + block IMO so BH should work that knot out. Also notice that the 2 blockers are the only ones who can get strength skills and there is no AG 3 on this team. Scoring is going to be a chore and ST4 is only going to take you so far. Plus each turn you can expect to have only 9 or 10 ogres who are paying attention.

0-12 Linemen 60K 5 4 2 8 Bonehead -Gen
0-2 Blockers 120K 5 5 2 9 Mighty Blow, Bonehead –Gen, ST
0-4 Runners 80K 6 4 2 8 Bonehead –Gen, PA
Rerolls 80K

I would also suggest that negative traits should not be allowed to be re-rolled. This might help. I also reserve the right to come back and edit this team over the next few days. So, please tell me what is wrong.

[Ithilkir]

Actually before we start discussing too many ideas for Ogre teams etc, wouldn't it be a good idea to create a new thread for it rather than hijacking this one?

[Ghost of Pariah]

You're probably right.
I'd hate to see a good team get created and then buried...like the Brettonnian team on the BBC did.

[Mestari]

Back to the topic: if there is one team I never want to see become official, it's the Brettonian team (every incarnation of it).

Galak:
The reason I suggested the goblins to that team... well, I didn't consider balance issues too much, but rather the fact that if there are snotlings, there are bound to be goblins around bullying them. Still - at first glance I wouldn't think this team to be one of the best, even with goblins, but I might be wrong.

Hmmm... what about a troll team with the same roster, but trolls instead of Ogres... they at least should get a goblin or too to offset the stupidity of the trolls.

[Mestari]

Now that there is an Ogre-team thread, I prefer an all-Ogre team. Admittedly the emphasis of an ogre+stunties team would be TTM attempts, so I have to agree that it doesn't sound like an Ogre team.

What comes to the snotling team, perhaps it should have snotlings and then a few goblins and/or orcs, plus the big guy as normal.

Snotling team:
0-16 Snotlings
0-4 goblins
0-2 orcs (linemen)

The team that Galak suggested would then become the Troll team as

0-6 Trolls
0-10 snotlings
0-2 goblins
(maybe 0-2 orcs?)

Scoring emphasis would again be in TTM, but while the Ogre team do have a clear history in the fluff which is definitely not revolved around throwing stunties, Trolls most likely wouldn't organise themselves into teams of only Trolls, but rather be organised by devious goblins or orcs.

[Ghost of Pariah]

Yeah, I feel the same way. The snotling team should be laughable.
These things are supposed to be more pathetic than goblins!
Their only hope of a TD should be with TTM.