Team Power Balance Discussion

Munkey · Post by **Munkey** » Tue May 06, 2003 6:08 pm

Stars in tournaments = up to the organiser

For stars in leagues I would prefer none, but I have no real problem with the current freebooting system and it does allow GW to produce some interesting minis.

Permanent stars, Yuk. Why would I want a dead weight player who gains no SPPs on my team simply because I need him to compete with the other teams who have one.

Skummy: I like the Physical Skills idea, there are loads of these traits that never get picked otherwise. Have you given any thought to which ones you would change?

Skummy · Post by **Skummy** » Tue May 06, 2003 6:34 pm

I would like to see the Physical skills become: Extra Arms, Prehensile Tail, Spikes, Thick Skull, and Two Heads. This would mean that the following remain as physical traits: Claw, Big Hand, Foul Apperance, Horns, Razor Sharp Claws/Fangs, Tentacles and Very Long Legs.

And of course a player without physical access can't take a physical skill if they roll doubles. Two headed High Elves would be very strange indeed.

Snew · Post by **Snew** » Tue May 06, 2003 7:51 pm

Nah, I think all physicals should remain traits. I can't see growing another head or extra arm being easier than a hand and forearm mutating into a claw. Quite the contrary, actually. I see the claw being easier.

I do see where you're going with it though and I kind of agree with that. I just wonder if extra arm is better than catch. I don't think 2 heads is better than Dodge but would be really sweet as a second skill to accentuate it. I don't think your idea would upset any balances is what I was trying to say, I guess.

Balrog · Post by **Balrog** » Tue May 06, 2003 9:26 pm

Toby wrote:Dwarf Teams will NEVER win ANYTHING, same with Wood Elfes.

Funny, the last tourney I went to (the Orion Cup) was won by a Chaos Dwarf team, and I believe there was another Dwarf team and one Wood Elf team in the top 5.

And in our tabletop league the Dwarfs came in second overall. The season before that was one by Chaos Dwarves.

The one thing about Blood Bowl that you should realize is that your reality may not coincide with the overall reality. For example, many members in my league want to make the Dwarf teams worse because they think that they are overpowered. Others on this board want to make new Dwarf players to make the team better - no one sees eye to eye. But from what I see online and everywhere else, the Dwarves are perfectly balanced, same as every other team.

Right now there are very few rules that need to change, and your vast sweeping changes, which seem to be driven by a need to see everything categorized and labeled, are just too much IMO.

-Balrog

Toby · Post by **Toby** » Tue May 06, 2003 10:10 pm

I picked Dwarves as an example for an very robust but low scoring team, Wood Elfes as an high scoring but very fragile team. 2 Poles of Strength and Agility so to say. If you have read all of the Topic, not just the "personal opinion" part of my original post you would not have missed my point.

In a Tourney like the recent "Blood Bowl", where Death & Serios Injuries are "wiped off" Wood Elves are way more competitive than under regular LRB rules. Keep in mind I'm talking about a elimination type tournament, not any kind of "Ladder Ranking" where an "ELO System" could apply.

I did not play the "Blood Bowl". Some people here did. What do you think about the "Blood Bowl Tournament Ruleset". Is this the way Blood Bowl should be played if you want to determine the best Coach ? All I'm saying is, there should be "Tournament Rules" as Part of LRB Tournaments Section. And this topic was meant to inspire people to make suggestions. A Dwarf Coach could come up with "3 Casualties = 1 Touchdown", for Example.

BlanchPrez · Post by **BlanchPrez** » Tue May 06, 2003 11:03 pm

Toby wrote:I picked Dwarves as an example for an very robust but low scoring team, Wood Elfes as an high scoring but very fragile team. 2 Poles of Strength and Agility so to say. If you have read all of the Topic, not just the "personal opinion" part of my original post you would not have missed my point.

First off, I have been reading the entire Topic, nor did I miss this point. Secondly, I have replied to that topic, and then the thread moved into a personal opinion thing (everyone's), as a topic such as this is won to do.

Toby wrote:In a Tourney like the recent "Blood Bowl", where Death & Serios Injuries are "wiped off" Wood Elves are way more competitive than under regular LRB rules. Keep in mind I'm talking about a elimination type tournament, not any kind of "Ladder Ranking" where an "ELO System" could apply.

I'm not sure I agree with this statement, but I can't say for sure. I'm sure someone here has data to back up an arguement on how competitive Wood Elves are in a tourney. I would, however, like to point out that you started with the opinion that Wood Elves, like dwarves, would have no chance of winning a tourny, and now you are saying they are more competitive in a tourny than in league play. More competitive, but they can't win? Doesn't make much sense to me.

Toby wrote:I did not play the "Blood Bowl". Some people here did. What do you think about the "Blood Bowl Tournament Ruleset". Is this the way Blood Bowl should be played if you want to determine the best Coach ? All I'm saying is, there should be "Tournament Rules" as Part of LRB Tournaments Section. And this topic was meant to inspire people to make suggestions. A Dwarf Coach could come up with "3 Casualties = 1 Touchdown", for Example.

I didn't play at the Blood Bowl either, but I did download the rules the tourny used. I personally like those rules, and plan on using a varation of them at a tourny I am trying to run. However, I disagree with you that there should be "official" tourniment rules in the LRB. Tournies, like leagues, are all going to be different from each other, and the organizer of the tourny, just like the league commissioner, needs to have the ability to determine what kinds of rules are best for his tourney.

Now, I have nothing against having suggestions on how to run a tourney, I just don't like the idea of "official" rules on them.

Chris

wesleytj · Post by **wesleytj** » Tue May 06, 2003 11:17 pm

I think the teams are more or less balanced against each other at given tr's...I really do. Most people say Chaos are a slow starting team, but I've won tr100 tourney's with them. You seem to think Wood Elves are not very good in a tourney (aka low tr) setting, but I have NEVER lost a game with tr 100 wood elves against another tr 100 team (out of about a dozen tries).

I think different teams grow differently, like elves (if played right) tend to develop spps more evenly than orcs, who always have trouble getting skills to black orcs. (especially now that they can't foul for em)...but that's all figured into tr too...a black orc with one skill is less tr than a line elf with 3...so it's all good...and I haven't seen orcs at a given tr go through a losing run or anything...

I think it's all close enough that I don't worry. What I DO worry about is making changes to skills where people don't consider fully the effect it has on this balance. Like weakening frenzy, and how it weakened the Dark Elf roster...not really one that needed weakening IMO...stuff like that.

Toby · Post by **Toby** » Tue May 06, 2003 11:21 pm

[quote="BlanchPrez"][/quote]

I was replying to Balrog... so no offense meant

BlanchPrez · Post by **BlanchPrez** » Tue May 06, 2003 11:24 pm

Toby wrote:
BlanchPrez wrote:
I was replying to Balrog... so no offense meant

Well, then my apologies for jumping the gun like that.

Chris

Darkson · Post by **Darkson** » Tue May 06, 2003 11:34 pm

I prefer the current options for tournaments, in that each organiser can set the rules as they like. Why do we need a standard set?

Toby · Post by **Toby** » Tue May 06, 2003 11:35 pm

What I have in mind is an adition to the "Tournaments" Part of LRB. It already provides a guide on how to organise the Tourney, I think of a couple of tools to actually balance the chancess of winning a Tournament for all participating races.

All participating teams have to be newly created TR 100 Team, thats a fundamental i think. I have a couple of reasons why it should be that way, not sure if that point is subject to discussion so I will not explain them now.

I want to get back to the Injuries. I think any Tournaments should be with "Serious Injuries" and "Ageing" disabled. It takes away a pure luck element of the game, and thats necessary because a Series of 3 Qualifing Games, 1/4, 1/2 and Final lacks the time to recover from bad luck. And at least my mentality if I play a strategy game in a competition is I play to win. I have seen Wood Elf Teams who only could field 7 players in the Final Game. I do not consider it fun to play such a game as the "Grand Final", nor do I consider myself the better coach if I manage to beat such an already battered opponent.

Toby · Post by **Toby** » Tue May 06, 2003 11:37 pm

Darkson wrote:I prefer the current options for tournaments, in that each organiser can set the rules as they like. Why do we need a standard set?

Because the game is set to head towards an International, Competitive strategy game. As soon as an Online Game is released, it will be huge and now would be the time to set such standarts.

omg forget that I just said "online game".

Darkson · Post by **Darkson** » Tue May 06, 2003 11:42 pm

Toby wrote:
Darkson wrote:I prefer the current options for tournaments, in that each organiser can set the rules as they like. Why do we need a standard set?
Because the game is set to head towards an International, Competitive strategy game. As soon as an Online Game is released, it will be huge and now would be the time to set such standarts.

omg forget that I just said "online game".

So the current tabletoppers/pbem/javabowl players get squeezed out of their game to suit some "computer-geek"

whose only started playing BB online cos he's heard it's the "next big thing" and will drop it like a stone when something else "newer and better" comes along??
No thanks

Darkson · Post by **Darkson** » Tue May 06, 2003 11:46 pm

I attended the BB tourney (1000k, stars etc) and I'm going to attend the Spiky tourney, which has a different rules set (1100k, no SP etc). I like the variety, it means a change of tactics and rosters. I wouldn't want to lose that, and I bet the people who play many more tournaments than I can (Deathwing, Grumbledook, Thadrin et al) would agree [wait for list of denials]

Toby · Post by **Toby** » Tue May 06, 2003 11:53 pm

Darkson wrote:So the current tabletoppers/pbem/javabowl players get squeezed out of their game to suit some "computer-geek" whose only started playing BB online cos he's heard it's the "next big thing" and will drop it like a stone when something else "newer and better" comes along??
No thanks

nonsense.

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Team Power Balance Discussion

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