Which Team List is better ?

Ithilkir · Post by **Ithilkir** » Fri May 09, 2003 5:22 pm

Knight?

But your layout works for your rules, however the proper layout works for the official and proper rules.

Toby · Post by **Toby** » Fri May 09, 2003 5:29 pm

Team List without Toby's Star Player System and without LRB Star Player System:

Team List A

Although Human teams do not have the individual strengths or outstanding abilities available to other races, they do not suffer from any outstanding weakness either. This makes Human teams extremely flexible, equally at home running the ball, passing it, or ignoring it and pounding the opposition into the turf instead!

Human Teams field up to 12 Linemen, 4 Catchers, 4 Knights, 2 Throwers and 1 Blocker.

50K Team Reroll
50K Team Wizard
50K Apothecary
                                   
Race  Position Title    Stats Skills,Traits & Specials                     Cost Category
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Human Catcher  Rookie    8237 Dodge,Catch                                   70K GE,AG
Human Knight   Rookie    7338 Block                                         90K GE,ST
Human Lineman  Rookie    6338                                               50K GE,SW
Human Thrower  Rookie    6338 Sure Hands,Pass                               70K GE,PA
Ogre  Blocker  Rookie    5529 Mighty Blow                                  120K GE,ST
                                   
Race  Characteristics
-----------------------------------
Ogre  Big Guy,Bone Head,Thick Skull

Secret Weapons  Cost  Penalty
-----------------------------
Chainsaw         30K  8+

Adding a Star Player from Toby's System. The Human Blocker.

Team List A

Code: Select all

Although Human teams do not have the individual strengths or outstanding abilities available to other races, they do not suffer from any outstanding weakness either. This makes Human teams extremely flexible, equally at home running the ball, passing it, or ignoring it and pounding the opposition into the turf instead!

Human Teams field up to 12 Linemen, 4 Catchers, 4 Knights, 2 Throwers and 1 Blocker.

50K Team Reroll
50K Team Wizard
50K Apothecary
                                    
Race  Position Title    Stats Skills,Traits & Specials                     Cost Category
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Human Catcher  Rookie    8237 Dodge,Catch                                   70K GE,AG
Human Knight   Rookie    7338 Block                                         90K GE,ST
Human Lineman  Rookie    6338                                               50K GE,SW
Human Thrower  Rookie    6338 Sure Hands,Pass                               70K GE,PA
Ogre  Blocker  Rookie    5529 Mighty Blow                                  120K GE,ST

Human Blocker  Rookie    4428 Mighty Blow                                   90K GE,ST
Human Blocker  Veteran   4528 Mighty Blow,Block,Star                       120K GE,ST
                                 
Race  Characteristics
-----------------------------------
Ogre  Big Guy,Bone Head,Thick Skull

Secret Weapons  Cost  Penalty
-----------------------------
Chainsaw         30K  8+

The Human Blocker STAR is "Mighty Zug" balanced (-1AV).
The Human Blocker ROOKIE is the STAR before he improved (+1ST, Block).
The Rookie starts with 0 Starplayer Points.
The Veteran starts with 16 Starplayer Points.

Human Rookie, Human Verteran and Ogre Rookie all use the BLOCKER Slot ! You can only have one of the 3 different Blockers.

The Special "Star" handicaps the Human Veteran Blocker. For example, he can only be FREEBOOTED for Tournament play, and costs DOUBLE if hired when creating a new team for League play.

Toby · Post by **Toby** » Fri May 09, 2003 5:31 pm

Ithilkir wrote:Knight?

But your layout works for your rules, however the proper layout works for the official and proper rules.

War Dancer ?
Dragon Warrior ?
Check my PM ?

Knight. Cooler. Blitzer. pff.

Grumbledook · Post by **Grumbledook** » Fri May 09, 2003 5:35 pm

blitzer is cooler

knight sounds lame

BlanchPrez · Post by **BlanchPrez** » Fri May 09, 2003 5:39 pm

Toby wrote:The RACE is necessary to defferenciate an OGRE BLOCKER from a HUMAN Blocker. If I put the numbers first, you could have (0-1) OGRE BLOCKER + (0-1) Human Blocker on other Team Lists this would give the Chaos Dwarfes 6 Trolls... you are Allowed to have ONE Blocker; either Human or Ogre

RACE defines a SET of characteristics. They NEVER cange !
So instead of "BIG GUY, BONE HEAD, THICK SKULL" you write "OGRE" on your team Roster.

Woah. Now you are talking about adding rules. I was under the impression that you were just talking about changing the format of the team list in the LRB, not adding/changing rules. That's a whole different topic.

Now, on that topic, I believe that it's been brought up several times in the past, replacing a position player with a Big Guy. I even did the same in a league I played in that was using 3ed Edition modified with Chet's "Modest Proposal" rules, so I have nothing against the idea in general. However, in my mind, Big Guys should still be listed seperatly from the rest of the team... wait, let me put it another way. I don't think that Big Guys hold a real position. Their race is their position. They're not really a part of the team, so much as a mercenary that is hired to play on the team to add some extra muscle. Thus the reason they get treated differently. So, giving them a seperate section of the Team List is okay by me, and negate's the need for a "race" column.

Now, as to your superstar system.. it's interesting, but I don't think I would use it. The main reason being that I like the idea of starting my team out with zero experience and working them up to superstars, rather than getting start right away. But, that's a personal preference thing.

On the rules themselves, maybe it would be easier to do something simmilar to the old 2nd edition rules. You can upgrade a player from rookie to experienced (6 SPP), and from experienced to veteran (16 SPP) and so on. That would prevent extra positions added to the team list, but would still allow "stars" to be added to the team. Not sure how much it should cost to do this, though.

I still don't like this idea... I think it would seriously screw up the Team Rating, and starting teams would no longer be on par with each other.

Chris

Toby · Post by **Toby** » Fri May 09, 2003 5:41 pm

OMG. Shall I edit it ?

Shall I edit the Wood Elves and rename their war dancers to Blitzers ?

OMG.

While I wa sat it I named some Lineorcs, Linelizards, Linerats, and since the Humans only have boring "normal" position descriptions, named the blitzer knight.

And again nobody was able to see the brilliance inside the thing.

-It allows to include Big Guys
-You get more space in the skills row on the team roster.

Not even to speak about the tactical depth of the (possible) star system.

I'm going to hang myself NOW.

Grumbledook · Post by **Grumbledook** » Fri May 09, 2003 5:44 pm

gees stop being such a drama queen

the idea of making the team lists clearer and putting all the info is a good idea, I don't think anyone said otherwise

though the extra preskilled players, new poisitions and changing the names is a complely different subject, you said yourself to ignore it, so there is no need to go off on one about it

Toby · Post by **Toby** » Fri May 09, 2003 5:49 pm

BlanchPrez wrote:Chris

Chris you didnt understand at all.

Currently Troll = Troll.

You need to assign the Troll a position, in orger to include him on the Team List.

Troll = Troll Blocker.
Minotaur = Minotaur Blocker

Both are availiable to Chaos Dwarfes.

If you list

(0-1) Troll Blocker
(0-1) Minotaur Blocker

then you get 2 Big Guys, 1 Troll, 1 Minotaur.

Solution:

A. Troll Blocker
B. Minotaur Blocker

Position Limit: Blockers 1

Now you have 6 Chaos Dwarf Blockers on that team List.
The Original Position Limit is 6
This would give you 6 Troll Blockers;

Solution:
Chaos Dwarf Tackler; Position Limit: 6 Tacklers
Troll Blocker; Position Limit: 1 Blocker
Minotaur Blocker; Position Limit: 1 Blocker.

u understand ? listing multible versions of the same player taype requires reorganising the team list.

BlanchPrez · Post by **BlanchPrez** » Fri May 09, 2003 6:01 pm

Toby wrote:
BlanchPrez wrote:Chris
Chris you didnt understand at all.

Currently Troll = Troll.

You need to assign the Troll a position, in orger to include him on the Team List.

Troll = Troll Blocker.
Minotaur = Minotaur Blocker

No, Toby, I understood this. I said that to me, Big Guys have no position, nor should they. Their race IS their position. Big Guys are a special case. I do NOT think they need positions added to the team.

Toby wrote:Both are availiable to Chaos Dwarfes.

If you list

(0-1) Troll Blocker
(0-1) Minotaur Blocker

then you get 2 Big Guys, 1 Troll, 1 Minotaur.

Solution:

A. Troll Blocker
B. Minotaur Blocker

Position Limit: Blockers 1

Now you have 6 Chaos Dwarf Blockers on that team List.
The Original Position Limit is 6
This would give you 6 Troll Blockers;

Solution:
Chaos Dwarf Tackler; Position Limit: 6 Tacklers
Troll Blocker; Position Limit: 1 Blocker
Minotaur Blocker; Position Limit: 1 Blocker.

u understand ? listing multible versions of the same player taype requires reorganising the team list.

Okay, you want a real solution to this? List Big Guys as Big Guys, and say 0-1 Big Guys allowed on the team, and list all Big Guys as having that position. This gives you your limit on Big Guys, but still allows normal positions without having to re-name everything.

Chris

Robotorz · Post by **Robotorz** » Fri May 09, 2003 6:05 pm

Well I like the Idea of your List...
So go with A.
At the first sight (and when there where no explanations) I was just confused and left

And I think that a Humanteam could have a other Player for the Big Guy Slot is ok!

Toby · Post by **Toby** » Fri May 09, 2003 6:07 pm

Chris, the re-naming was an issue, but a verry smal one.

When I startet, I assingned the Big Guy's the Position: Big Guy

Troll = Big Guy

I found this confusing with the Characteristic "Big Guy".

I decided to go for "Blocker"

The re-naming was limited to:

Chaos Dwarf Blocker = Chaos Dwarf Tackler (Block,Tackle, why not)
Black Orc Blocker = Black Orc Basher (he lacks Block, so he bashes)

Thats all. Of course you could go with option A. and assign the "monsters" the Position "Big Guy" or "Monster". I chose B, and actually i find "Tackler" and "Basher" cooler by now.

Grumbledook · Post by **Grumbledook** » Fri May 09, 2003 6:07 pm

yer the chaos dwarfs are the blockers and the troll is a big guy

Toby · Post by **Toby** » Fri May 09, 2003 6:12 pm

Guys, you really piss me of.

It is "mucking" irrelevant if the Troll is assigned the Position "Blocker", "Big Guy" or "ALPHA".

The relevant hing is that you are allowed only one ALPHA and 6 BETAS on that team. If you fail to understand the improvements because you like the word "Blitzer" better than "Kinght" then you are not on an intelectual level of a person i apreciate to talk with.

Bye.

BlanchPrez · Post by **BlanchPrez** » Fri May 09, 2003 6:18 pm

Toby wrote:Chris, the re-naming was an issue, but a verry smal one.

When I startet, I assingned the Big Guy's the Position: Big Guy

Troll = Big Guy

I found this confusing with the Characteristic "Big Guy".

I decided to go for "Blocker"

The re-naming was limited to:

Chaos Dwarf Blocker = Chaos Dwarf Tackler (Block,Tackle, why not)
Black Orc Blocker = Black Orc Basher (he lacks Block, so he bashes)

Thats all. Of course you could go with option A. and assign the "monsters" the Position "Big Guy" or "Monster". I chose B, and actually i find "Tackler" and "Basher" cooler by now.

Okay, that makes sense, and I can see where it might be confusing. I still don't think they need positions, and would vote for option A, leaving them Big Guys, but again, that's a matter of personal taste.

Chris

Toby · Post by **Toby** » Fri May 09, 2003 6:24 pm

Thanks for taking the time Chris.

Maybe this issue could be solved by naming their Position "Monster". Its only used to apply a limit, not a job-description.

This would leave other Player Positions untouched and not interfer with the "Big Guy" Characteristic.

If you look at the Starplayer Cards, most Big guys are "Blockers" though...