Why fouling and crowd cas should be given spps again

ZanzerTem · Post by **ZanzerTem** » Thu Feb 27, 2003 8:14 pm

Take Pile on/Mighty Blow BEFORE Guard and your Longbeards will develop much faster. After 20 games I had 8 Longbeards with at least 1 skill, and 4 with 2 or more skills.

Ghost of Pariah · Post by **Ghost of Pariah** » Thu Feb 27, 2003 8:15 pm

YOu didn't seriously compare CD's to longbeards did you?

And big guys? I've had more than a cpouple big guys who are ball carriers.

Sorry Blood, I'm not giving my linemen a skill that puts them on their back. lol

ZanzerTem · Post by **ZanzerTem** » Thu Feb 27, 2003 8:18 pm

Then take Mighty Blow if you want them standing. =/

Munkey · Post by **Munkey** » Thu Feb 27, 2003 8:24 pm

Pariah wrote:YOu didn't seriously compare CD's to longbeards did you?

Chaos Dwarf Blockers ARE Longbeards.

Pariah wrote:And big guys? I've had more than a cpouple big guys who are ball carriers.

But probably not Kroxigors. Admittedly a poor choice of wording though, some big guys can make plays with the ball though.

Zombie · Post by **Zombie** » Fri Feb 28, 2003 3:04 am

Sixpack595 wrote:If I don't foul, he can't foul either. Half of his foulers get sent off, but a quarter of my fouled guys get sent off. How does that help him win games? Repeated fouling will not help you win close games. Don't give a guy DP, instead give him something to generate SPPs and you will do better.

First, less than half your players get sent off. Taking into account the argument with the ref, it's actually 41.7%. Second, a lot more than half of his players are gotten rid of. Don't forget that a knock out often means the game or a big part of it. And last but not least, if you foul intelligently, his player will be worth a lot more than your fouling lineman. Like i said, it's still worth it.

Zombie · Post by **Zombie** » Fri Feb 28, 2003 3:31 am

About the dwarf longbeard discussion. Who are actually the best linemen in the game? Longbeards and line-elves. What linemen cost the most? Longbeards and line-elves. So why are people arguying?

A better question is who's the best lineman for his price. I suggest orcs, norse and amazons are (i'd say amazons first because they rule at 6 SPPs).

Ghost of Pariah · Post by **Ghost of Pariah** » Fri Feb 28, 2003 4:15 am

Like I said, I wasn't saying that longbeards suck (c'mon dwarfs are my favorite team!) I'm saying they are the least versatile of all the linemen.

Sixpack595 · Post by **Sixpack595** » Fri Feb 28, 2003 5:11 am

Zombie wrote: First, less than half your players get sent off. Taking into account the argument with the ref, it's actually 41.7%. Second, a lot more than half of his players are gotten rid of. Don't forget that a knock out often means the game or a big part of it. And last but not least, if you foul intelligently, his player will be worth a lot more than your fouling lineman. Like i said, it's still worth it.

You have an equal chance of getting you coach booted when arguing the call, someone else will need to do the math to factor that in...as soon as he is gone, it is 50% plus the 1 in 6 chance you get tossed on the 1st foul. At least this is how we used to do it, looking in the LRB, I don't see arguing the call so it may have changed.

How do you get more than half out? 50% will be stunned even if you do break armor, and that isn't 100% either. Half of the KOs(the next most likely injury roll) will be back next drive... more if they have smelling salts.

Zombie · Post by **Zombie** » Fri Feb 28, 2003 6:55 am

It should be 41.7% for most of the game. When (if) the coach gets sent off, it turns to 50% but you can then start to foul less. I'm not saying that you should foul once per turn under the current rules (if that was the case, i would suggest changing the rules). All i'm saying is that 4 or 5 well placed fouls will help your team more than it will hurt.

When you break armour without using dirty player (and with enough assists it should be rare not to), you've got a 41.7% chance of getting a CAS and a 72% chance of getting at least a KO. Even if you have to use dirty player on the armour roll, there's still at least a 41.7% chance of getting at least a KO. KO'd players may not come back for the rest of the game. I guess we could say that as the game advances, it pays even more to foul because KOs have a better chance of being equivalent to missing the rest of the game.

Don't forget also that the player you foul is supposedly much better than the one who's fouling. This is what makes it such a good trade off.

Post by **DoubleSkulls** » Fri Feb 28, 2003 8:46 am

Pariah wrote:Ian, 4 longbeards with 11+ spp's after 16 games is an exception not the rule, plus you didn't "show" me this league. How do i know he didn't play only goblins and Amazons? Is this league 3rd, 4th or LRB? What house rules do they use? Does this coach normal do well? I think this team is not the usual dwarf team. My last dwarf team retired at a TR of 250+ and I only had 4 longbeards with 11+ spps

The league is pretty clean LRB 1.3. The coach is an extremely good dwarf coach - and the team is untypical because he's deliberately chosen not to take MB. The standard of coaching he is up against is generally very high (Marcus, Geggster etc) so few easy games.

Maybe its just your dwarven experience that's unusual. Maybe its because -

- he actually know how to play them better and develop them better than you. Every dwarf team I've seen him play develops the Longbeards upto guard - and he doesn't need anything else.

Pariah wrote:I'm saying they are the least versatile of all the linemen.

No argument here. Longbeards are extremely good at hitting people - and being hit back, and extremely bad at almost everything else.

Redfang · Post by **Redfang** » Fri Feb 28, 2003 9:04 am

The problem with Str3+Guard (Longbeard) vs Str4 (BOB) is that Str3+Guard helps you when you're hitting; but can easily be avoided when getting hit! Just hit the Longbeards (with or without Guard) starting at the end of the line, and/or use Str4 players to remove the Guards!
Guard is very useful, but an opponent who wants to block you won't have much extra trouble in doing so!

wesleytj · Post by **wesleytj** » Fri Feb 28, 2003 7:38 pm

Zombie wrote:About the dwarf longbeard discussion. Who are actually the best linemen in the game? Longbeards and line-elves. What linemen cost the most? Longbeards and line-elves. So why are people arguying?

A better question is who's the best lineman for his price. I suggest orcs, norse and amazons are (i'd say amazons first because they rule at 6 SPPs).

you could definitely argue for beastmen on that list as well...60k linemen with good ma, decent ag and av, horns, and access to gen, str, and mutations?! not bad! WAY better than line orcs for only another 10k imo. the only thing the orc has is 10k less cost and +1av. for that tradeoff the beast gets horns, more skill access, and more speed. UM YEAH that's a good deal.

Munkey · Post by **Munkey** » Sat Mar 01, 2003 10:30 pm

Zombie, you just persuded me to try fouling a bit more, as soon as I develop a DP. Obviously it won't always pay off but put like this it's a good bet.

On the strength of this if SPPs were awarded my Black Orcs would be considering DP as their first skill and for linemen it would be no contest.

Snarlton Heston · Post by **Snarlton Heston** » Thu May 08, 2003 9:19 pm

My two cents of the SPPs for fouling and crowd casualties:

1. Can we have a poll on this topic?

2. I would vote for gaining SPPs on fouls by non-dirty players and crowd casualties

Snarlton Heston · Post by **Snarlton Heston** » Thu May 08, 2003 9:20 pm

My two cents of the SPPs for fouling and crowd casualties:

1. Can we have a poll on this topic?

2. I would vote for gaining SPPs on fouls by non-dirty players and crowd casualties

Snarlton
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