Public Opinion Poll: Let's rate the teams!

Norse · Post by **Norse** » Wed Apr 09, 2003 3:46 pm

Balrog, the problem with this kind of poll is going to be favourites cropping up... the other serious issue is League vs Tournament..

In tournaments (where injuries can be ignored) Amazons and Woodies are always going to do well... In leagues, they fade as time passes (I don't agree that Woodies are that good in a league.. they tend to rely on 2 players, the wardancer and the other wardancer... if they lose them they lose a lot of options- and SPPs..)

I think the best overall team is Skaven.. they can start well, but will also do well as time goes by thanks to mutations... personally, I have had dreadful experiences with Lizards because the MVPs keep going to the Skinks! Almost impossible to say.. Dwarves are an awful team, but tend to do very well in leagues because they never lose any players...

Question is... do you want to win the Battle (WElves) or the War (Dwarves)?

littlemute · Post by **littlemute** » Wed Apr 09, 2003 4:39 pm

Norse wrote: I think the best overall team is Skaven.. they can start well, but will also do well as time goes by thanks to mutations... personally, I have had dreadful experiences with Lizards because the MVPs keep going to the Skinks! Almost impossible to say.. Dwarves are an awful team, but tend to do very well in leagues because they never lose any players...

Question is... do you want to win the Battle (WElves) or the War (Dwarves)?

This just isn't right. Woodelves do just fine in most leagues. Obviously a league with all Ork and chaos teams are going to chew them up but in a balanced league they don't 'fade' away: they become untouchable. Every lineman has block and dodge, the wardancers are in the stratosphere and the catchers can usually one turn score, throwers get specialized, one to hold the ball and hand off and the other to dodge through a hole and make the pass. Because the woodelves have good stats as in speed and agility and have access to the best skill combo in the game (block and dodge) for their lineman it becomes very difficult for the bashing teams to really do all that much damage later in the league. The key with woodies is to beat them down EARLY in the team's career to keep them from powering up.

Dwarves can become unstoppable as well, but with Frenzy getting nerfed, they're certainly that much worse off. Why would the skaven, with AV 7 as well, not be in as bad a shape in leagues than the Amazons and Woodies?

Post by **DoubleSkulls** » Wed Apr 09, 2003 4:47 pm

Lycos wrote:why is that when the exp players dont rate [Humans]? (and I note you all rate orcs highly and Iwillams was highest place at 18 wiv them in tha T'mt?)
just curious...

The Blood Bowl allowed Star Players. Under those conditions humans and undead tend to dominate.

I don't think any experienced coach thinks there is very much to choose between the top races, and IMO the gap between most races is insignificant.

Orcs are potentially much better in a league environment where high Av keeps the whole team together meaning those BOBs and Blitzers can become quite scarey.

Norse · Post by **Norse** » Wed Apr 09, 2003 4:49 pm

Potentially Skaven would be in the same trouble, although foul appearance and spikes will help them stay alive... Plus, they get a rampaging psycho while woodies get a guy that only turns up for half the match and cannot stand up on his own.....

To be honest though... I take your point about Woodies becoming untouchable.. but scoring a glorious 1 turn TD only gives your opponent the chance to stack the LOS and rid you of 3 players... By the time a WElf team has reached the heights you refer to, most other teams have combinations of Tackle, Mighty Blow, Piling on, Guard and Dirty Player which will more than make up for Leap, Side Step and Blodge... WElves can still die on a failed GFI even if they have 300 SPPs!

Don't get me wrong, I think WElf teams are great, but I don't think they last that well compared to others...

Zombie · Post by **Zombie** » Wed Apr 09, 2003 9:59 pm

littlemute wrote:Third Teir: Need a lot of luck and some good coaching to dominate

Chaos Dwarfs - Hobgoblins will aways suck
Lizard Men - Advantages neutralized by Dwarf/Human teams
Khemri Undead - Slow

You're kidding, right?

MistWraith · Post by **MistWraith** » Wed Apr 09, 2003 10:37 pm

I hope he is.

Hobgoblins are a good player. Think of them as 40k disposable players. Much like the fluff would have. They are also the onlyones on that team that are good at handeling the ball. Basicly not as tough as a human lineman, but 10k cheaper. And with a rock solid line to hide behind, when they get the ball.

Dwarf/human teams have nothing that neutrelizes lizardmen. Wood elves and skaven do (a lot of speed).

Khemri does not have to be fast. They have 4 mummies, and ag3 ball handelers, and are faster than dwarves (on adverage).

littlemute · Post by **littlemute** » Thu Apr 10, 2003 12:13 am

We had two lizzie teams going ape shit over our league for a couple seasons, to the point of people complaining that they were broken. Both human teams in the league devoured them to the tune of 3-1, 3-0, one lizzie coach quit the league after his defeat. First, human lineman aren't squishy and can just sit next to the then immobile Sauruses, the human blitzers and even throwers isolate the skinks and pummel them. A great play against the sauruses is the switch up. You act like you're going to run to one side, then switch to the other side with a screen, and pin the sauruses with lineman to the original side. They get a few blocks in lineman falls down, lineman gets up and stands next to them. Skinks alone CANNOT stop the human running game.

As for hobgoblins, they have to be built from no skills at all. With the removal of Fouling casualties SSP, where are the SSP's going to come from?

MistWraith · Post by **MistWraith** » Thu Apr 10, 2003 1:08 am

My hobgoblins have two to three times the spp's as my Chaos Dwarf linemen. Why, because they are the only ones getting spp'd from ballhandeling/scoring.

My lizardmen eat human teams for lunch, unless they are played by a good coach. Form a cage with the sarus and krox, then walk it up to scoring range, and dodge away with the stunty skink. Repeat at will, for the 2-1 win.

Zombie · Post by **Zombie** » Thu Apr 10, 2003 1:56 am

My hobgoblins also have 3 times the SPPs.

Lizardmen rule if the coach is simply wise enough to give his saurii diving tackle.

As for the Khemri, they're widely known on this board to be overpowered, like most other teams that have come out recently. Why else do you think they'll be dropping AG to 2 on all skellies next October?

Taking what is widely known as being 3 of the best teams (one even considered overpowered to the point of being broken) and placing them at the bottom of your list is not the best way of showing us your knowledge of the game.

Ghost of Pariah · Post by **Ghost of Pariah** » Thu Apr 10, 2003 2:42 am

I don't think it shows a lack of knowledge.

It shows your lack of knowledge because you obviously can't read the title of this thread. Public OPINION Poll.

The first thread simply says rate the teams best to worst in league play.

He may not play as well with those teams. Or he finds those teams challenging. Or whatever. If you ask, me it's all very subjective and to insult him for his opinion is very rude.

Balrog · Post by **Balrog** » Thu Apr 10, 2003 3:48 am

Norse wrote:Balrog, the problem with this kind of poll is going to be favourites cropping up... the other serious issue is League vs Tournament...

Read my first post, I specify that this opinion poll is for league play. And of course favourites are going to crop up, that's the whole point!

-Balrog

Darkson · Post by **Darkson** » Thu Apr 10, 2003 6:39 am

I'm just wondering why the Norse place so low. Can someone enlighten me?

Dangerous Dave · Post by **Dangerous Dave** » Thu Apr 10, 2003 11:33 am

Darkson,

Although the blitzers are great, the rest of the Norse team is easily defeated when most other teams have some development - ie Block. At this point, the bashy teams beat them up and the Elves can match them in a fight (although Blodge makes an Elf better in a fight) but move the ball so much better.

Dave

Asmodan · Post by **Asmodan** » Thu Apr 10, 2003 11:53 am

I agree with Darkson, i don´t think Norse is that bad.
And Dave, if the other teams have some development, so will the Norse.
And Blodge will not help much when every Norse have Tackle.
And they usually receive as much damage as they do.

Asmodan

Dangerous Dave · Post by **Dangerous Dave** » Thu Apr 10, 2003 12:24 pm

OK so the Norse linos get tackle.... that just cancels out Dodge - so the Norse team is equal to a Wood Elf team in a fight - but worse than an av 8 Elf team.

The bottom line is that av 7 and no ability to avoid damage (ag 4 / access to dodge) is a recipe for losing players.

Don't get me wrong, I like playing Norse but I agree in a long term league they are definitely near the bottom of the pack.

Dave