The rule "must declare action before moving"

[Gorblitz!!]

I buy every piece of BB stuff those fellows produce too. It doesnt mean I have to like it! I just want new things every now and then. Repeats of the skills vs traits tables here, listing ALL of the star players, Amazon team lists in every mag, Norse team lists in every mag some saying 0-4 Blitzers some saying 0-2??TWO PAGES devoted to the new treeman model?!?!? Three pages to list the entire BB mini catalogue?? I just think they could produce a better quality magazine without all the mistakes and repeats. PS- I fink an anyural iz won uv dem yeerlee fings aint it?

[Deathwing]

Yeah well..agreed on some points..the 2003 Annual will carry the Amazons, Lizards and Norse again...
However, BB remains the only GW game system where the rules are available free to download, so it's far from all bad.
We're getting a little off-topic here, as long as we're all clear on the declared actions rule.

[Gorblitz!!]

I LOVE BLOOD BOWL!!
Also the declaration rule is used by me even though I believe it has no point. Did I mention I love Blood Bowl?? I shall post to this topic no longer. Great discussion!

[Scott King]

How much? You Americans are getting ripped off!! I am buying BB3 for 5.95 NZ ddollars, which is about $3 US, and it has to travel further to get here. And I don't have to wait until some official release date for it! That is just bizarre!

Blood Bowl Magazine #2 Price: 6.95!!!!!!!!!!! 48 pages, 1 color, low grade paper stock. 17 pages dedicated to fixing what was printed in the last issue and is now obsolete, the rest is a reprint of filler that was printed earlier.

[Haar]

Back to the thread... My league uses the "declare actions" rule pretty strictly officially (although in person, different coaches are more forgiving than others sometimes).

The rule is super important in a few cases. Here's an example that's pertinent to my Dark Elves. I want to blitz somebody, and my two blitzers are both two dodges away from hitting the ballcarrier. If I don't have to declare "Blitz" before moving, I can start to move my first blitzer and stop moving him after using his dodge skill on the first dodge (since it is once per action as a skill). Then I can use my second blitzer to make the blitz instead. That way I have a better chance of saving the TRR for the block instead of wasting it on that second dodge. This sort of situation comes up infrequently, but it is important.

In general, I let my opponent declare their action any time before they roll dice, after dice get rolled, no changes can be made. This is not quite our league policy, but it is a little more laid back. Some people in the league follow it to the letter.

In a related note, we also ruled that once you've moved a figure, you can't take that back instead. You've gotta count squares and look for dodges with your finger. We had one two many "where did this guy start?" kind of events.

[Smeborg]

I agree with Haar's last comment.

I think the important thing is to declare the action before rolling any dice.

Haar has given the obvious example: you can't let someone succeed with a dodge roll and then announce that the player is taking a blitz.

In most games, I don't think this is less strict than asking actions to be declared at the beginning of the action. In fact, it might help by speeding up the game.

However, in a game where opposing players have Diving Tackle and/or Shadowing, I think you would have to enforce the rule strictly.

Cheers

[Gorblitz!!]

Well I STILL dont see what the declaration rule "fixes". What is wrong with the DE scenario Haar described? Nothing. If you dodge then reroll then decide you would like to use the other blitzer instead, what is the BFD? If your blitzer is having a prison shower with a shadowing defender and you cant get away, use someone else to make the blitz. I dont see any damaged game mechanics or ruined game play. I use the declaration rule because its the rules. I dont like it and I dont think it "fixes" anything. In my opinion detracts from the game play.

Now instead of some dum@$$ hovering over your turn marker praying to god you dont move it so they can call IP you have em hovering over every single little move hoping you forget to declare your WD is blitzing.

It detracts from the ease of gameplay and encourages anal retentive weenies to use every slick trick in their bag to "catch" you. Not fun in my opinion.

[Grumbledook]

Well say you have 2 palyers who can blitz the ball carrier and they are both next to an opponent with shadowing. Now you say your going to blitz with one of them , he then knows which one he should use shadowing on. If you didn't declair whats to stop you moving one player away and then if the shadowing player following him, stop the move and then blitz with the other player. Or if he doesn't shadow the first one, you can change your mind to say oh he is going to blitz now. Your opponent would be pissed off cause if he had known he was going to blitz he would have shadowed. If you did play you could anounce the blitz after seeing what else happens, whats to stop him saying, "oh well if he is blitzing now i will shadow him", you could then say, he won't blitz and then he would say he won't shadow then. This could go back and forth for ages, so its easier all round to declair your actions first.

Whats the big deal about declairing actions first anyway, can't see a problem with it myself. No one forces you to blitz with an ogre maybe risking him bone heading and losing your blitz. The rules work as they are written and don't need changing.

[Gorblitz!!]

I dont care about a BH Ogre actually. What I care about the most and that which keeps me playing BB and WANTING to play BB every chance I get is the smoothness and ease of game play.

The rules worked as is prior to them changing to the declare rule too. They didnt need changing then either.

I said that I use the rule but I dont like it at all. To me personally it detracts from the game.

[Grumbledook]

Havn't you always had to declair actions since 3rd edition came out?

Anyway I can't say i have had any problems with the game running smoothly when using it, in fact I would say the opposite, not declairing actions causes more problems.

[DaImp]

I have to side with Gorblitz on this. The origional 3rd Ed rules never had the declare actions rule and I never encountered any problems as a result of not having it. As I stated in an earlier post I feel the declare actions rule takes away some of the fluidity of the game, and reduces the options available to a coach during his turn.
I don't see what is wrong with the senario Grumbledook put forward. The guy with shadowing is outnumbered and would just have to make a choice about who he is going to follow. If anything the declare action rule is giving the player with shadowing too much power as he is effectively limiting the actions of 2 players, which to me is unrealistic.

[Deathwing]

For a start it'd weaken the negatraits. You can avoid getting battered around by ST5 guys to a certain extent by simply avoiding them and forcing them to risk a blitz. Without declarations, blitzing with your troll/ogre is a no-brainer decision a lot of the time. You could say the same for a lot of other decisions, what is does is eliminate a lot of the risk in the risk/reward ratio.
Looking at a situation, weighing up the odds and deciding on a plan has to create a better tactical game than a series of no-brainer decisions.
Do I go with option A (risky but more reward if it works) or option B (the safer option)? That's a coach's decision, and different coaches will call it differently. If you take away the action declaration, every single coach out there will attempt A first and go to B if it doesn't come off. Does that create a better or worse game? The latter IMO.

[Grumbledook]

Indeed i agree with deathwing on those points, they force the coach to make a tactical choice, without the luxury of a second chance safty net most of the time.

[MickeX]

I agree totally with Gorblitz on this one. I've never seen an answer to this that actually shows a problem with skipping this rule - all that is said is that it changes the rules. Yes, it does. And that's ok. BB becomes a little bit different, and quite a bit easier for newbies.

I can see no problem whatsoever for game balance or feel. Actually, spontaneosly turning that lucky dodge run into a blitz feels a lot more like BB then planning it all from the beginning.

Micke

[DoubleSkulls]

I agree with Deathwing too, the rule is an improvement as it forces you to plan your turn more carefully.