Will base rings ever be official again?

[Skummy]

Heh. I did see a Kroxigor intercept an Elf pass and run it in for a touchdown recently, though.

[veron]

I think you only need them if you are using some old plastic models that are all on the same pose. With different poses for different positions, you can figure out who is who after two minutes (usually even with converted teams). Plus, like was mentioned earlier, colour rings definately make the overall appearance of the model worse. IMHO, of course.

[Ghost of Pariah]

Saurus doesn't look like a blocker? What else would he be, with a stat-like like 5 4 1 9?

He''s referring to the Saurus I mentioned earlier in the thread.

Ag 2 Break Tackle and Catch. That is not a blocker.

[phil]

Ag 2 Break Tackle and Catch. That is not a blocker.

no, but it is a saurus... _that's_ the point... base rings are not intended to in any way highlight specific players or even to imply the nature of the player's specific ability or position... they are meant to differentiate between the _types_ of players of teh _race_ not the _players_ on the _roster_... numbers are used for that, not base rings... if base rings were supposed to tell you what a specific player was capable of, you'd need a different color for every single player on the field, or at least a fistfull... on the other hand, if you are trying to tell the linemen from the positional players at a glance, base rings are invaluable...

thus, the earlier statement about the team of 16 conversions is an outright affront to the point of baserings... _that_ team needs it more than any other simply because they are not miniatures which are recognizable to average bb players... congratulations on having friends who can keep track of which is which after one dissertation, i'm sure you all do very well at that old simon game too, but that's not the point... if you and i were to face each other at an event, i wouldn't know your team, to me, they'd be 16 completely unique players with completely unknown general characteristic... using baserings i'd at least know, "ok, he's got 6 linemen and 10 positional players, and thoise big guys are blockers so they're strong, those little guys are throwers, so i expect they'll be handling the ball, etc..." but i can't do that... instead, i have to get a copy of your roster, or ask you over and over "which one is that?" "was number 7 a blitzer?" "which one of these guys has teh four strength" etc... you could cut the number of stupid questions in half with a little bit to go on...

[Grumbledook]

What happens if your mad and use square bases?

[phil]

you have to find a round field?

[Ghost of Pariah]

...if base rings were supposed to tell you what a specific player was capable of, you'd need a different color for every single player on the field, or at least a fistfull... on the other hand, if you are trying to tell the linemen from the positional players at a glance, base rings are invaluable...

But if the lineman has AG 4 and catch he really isn't a lineman anymore is he? What is the point in knowing what word is next to his name? Isn't it more confusing to survey the board and see 3 grey rings and think they are "linemen" when, in fact, they are developed into postitional players and a threat to score?
What is the point in knowing that a 6 3 4 8 catch, dodge, block player used to be 6338? He isn't a "lineman" anymore!

... using baserings i'd at least know, "ok, he's got 6 linemen and 10 positional players, and thoise big guys are blockers so they're strong, those little guys are throwers, so i expect they'll be handling the ball, etc..." but i can't do that... instead, i have to get a copy of your roster, or ask you over and over "which one is that?" "was number 7 a blitzer?" "which one of these guys has teh four strength" etc... you could cut the number of stupid questions in half with a little bit to go on...

Exactly my point...how do baserings tell you which linemen have the ST 4? How do vaserings tell you that my Human Catcher has had 2 St increases and got block? How do base rings give you any clue of anything other than a starting or tourney team?

[phil]

what is more common in the "real world" of tabletop (TABLETOP! not online where people play the same team for years), a player who has a skill, maybe two, all of which do little more than specialize that player in his positional role on a team _or_ a player with three or more advances whose new abilities see him used in a capacity outsode of his eponymous positional niche?

the vast, overwhelming majority of players on any given pitch are going to be pretty well within the expectations set forth by a basering. the few who don't are thus easier to keep track of...

[Ghost of Pariah]

I see the teams in PBeM retiring more often than on the table top leagues.
I have had several linemen in table top leagues become something outside the norm. Longbeards are about the only players who don't have the ability to become any other position. In fact, I think every team I have ever played has had linemen that have become "postional"

[Zombie]

Same here. And like Pariah, i don't see the point of colored base rings. It might even confuse people even more, thinking they know what a player is only to find out too late that he isn't that at all.

[Skummy]

Have either of you played with colored base rings?

[Ghost of Pariah]

Yep! I sure have!

Played 2nd edition with them and then in 3rd edition we had coaches complain about the same thing. We used it for awhile, I liked it cuz they often assumed players with the Human Blitzer Red color were just 7 3 3 8 Block. They would always forget that he had AG 4 Sprint and Catch. Soon they complained that it was unfair so we stopped it and they learned how to read a roster.

So later on when I played Dwarfs I used the same Longbeard model for each longbeard. Well one of them developed Dodge, Catch and AG 3 and my Runner had Strong Arm, Hail Mary and Accurate. I'd fake the cage or make it look like I was gonna pass to my Blitzers but then I'd send the ball to the Longbeard. The wailing about unfairness nearly curled the wallpaper, even though that longbeard had a big white #6 on his shoulder and on that roster was his info.

Either way some people just can't remember what is on the pitch. The rst of us shouldn't be forced to use "their" system because they can't remember.

[Zombie]

Have either of you played with colored base rings?

No, but i'd rather not, because i think it looks silly. I can understand doing it if all your players look the same, but if you use the proper figs for all positions, there's no reason whatsoever to make them look worse with colored base rings.

[Deathwing]

I think we're getting a little away from the point here.
The question is not whether they should be compulsory, but whether there should be an official 'standard' of colours for those that want to use them.

Phil's point re. custom teams is perfectly valid, at the BB Norse fielded a team of Orcs converted from WHFB plastics and coloured the base rings. Had I sat down opposite him or if/when I do in future I'd be able to tell which players are which positions at a glance. In that case it's a useful guide and courteous to your opponent.

Personally I prefer the asthetics of normal green/brown bases, and in the case of my Amazons I've worked a compromise because one of the linewomen and one of the Blitzers are very similar.
Then again, I did say recently on another thread that if people need base rings to differenciate between positional players then how on earth do they remember who's got which skills? Maybe I should qualify that by stating it's referring to standard easily identifable figs.

Do I think base ring colours should be compulsory? NO!!
Do I think they can be useful in some cases? Yes..and if people are going to opt to use them then a standard would be useful.

My only concern would be the 'any player will do' problem. I wouldn't like to see a return to giving a lineman a yellow basering and calling him a catcher, or indeed giving a Welf catcher a red ring and calling him a Wardancer.

I'm surprised at Zombie's opposition, given that you've repeatedly stated that your league is not adverse to using unpainted proxy figs as a matter of course. Would have thought they'd be a positive boon.

And WTF is all this about Saurus? If you can't tell a Saurus from a Skink from a Krox then give up right now.... If ever any team didn't need colours it's the one with 3 positions on the roster that are all completely different sizes....

[sean newboy]

And WTF is all this about Saurus? If you can't tell a Saurus from a Skink from a Krox then give up right now.... If ever any team didn't need colours it's the one with 3 positions on the roster that are all completely different sizes....

I made that point b4, it also applys to Chaos Dwarves, if u cant tell a hobgob from a bull centaur your blind and i want to play u.