Gnoll Team and new Trait idea

Darkson · Post by **Darkson** » Wed May 07, 2003 11:28 pm

GalakStarscraper wrote:Which one do you guys actually prefer (phil???)

Why not allow all the versions, ad run a gnoll league - BloodGnoll

I personally like the ST (spotted) version.

Skummy · Post by **Skummy** » Wed May 07, 2003 11:47 pm

(All comments below should be prefaced by the warning that I am completely pissed at the moment.)

I really like Galak's version, and think that only the females should get Strength skills. I would like to see the Alpha Female get changed to Alpha Beast, and apply to whichever Gnoll has the most SPP points at the moment, and make it an end of drive effect as opposed to an end of game effect. Somehow the idea of the pack converging to assert a new leader appeals to me a bit too much.

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Thu May 08, 2003 1:03 am

Code: Select all

0-12 Gnolls 7 3 3 7 skills: Strip Ball 70k, GEN
0-4 Pack Females 7 3 3 7 skills: Sure Hands, Alpha Female 80k, GEN/ST 
0-4 Gnoll Scouts 8 3 3 7 skills: Shadowing, Dodge 100k GEN/AG 
Re-rolls 60k 
"Alpha Female": The Pack Female player with the most SPP's on a Gnoll team gains +1 strength and the Leader skill. If at the end of a game (after MVPs are awared) another Pack Female player on the Gnoll team overtakes the leader in SPP's, they become the new Alpha Female. Immediately make an injury roll for the previous Alpha Female, who also loses her strength bonus and the leader skill. If two players are tied for the lead in SPP's then there is no Alpha Female and no player gains the +1 ST and Leader skill (hence there will not be an Alpha Female when the team is created).

With No Big Guy ... this team works really well for me.

Consider it the 78th MBBL2 team ... ... just need to think up a good spellcaster for the team now. However if anyone sees a serious issue ... I'm open to it.

Galak

Darkson · Post by **Darkson** » Thu May 08, 2003 6:17 am

For the ex-alpha female, are we talking the serious injury, or the injury table?

DaImp · Post by **DaImp** » Thu May 08, 2003 7:26 am

[quote="Darkson]
Why not allow all the versions, and run a gnoll league - BloodGnoll

[/quote]

very cute comment

DaImp · Post by **DaImp** » Thu May 08, 2003 7:50 am

Another small note. Surely the team has to start with at least 1 pack leader. Ie make the listing 1-4 Pack Females. No big deal, but it would seem weird for the team to be created without a Pack Female in it.
I do still have an issue with the possibility of coaches guaranteeing themselves a cheap star player by only buying 1 Pack Female. Even buying only 1 Pack Female on team creation and waiting for her to get 15-20 SPP before hiring more Pack Females. Thereby ensuring that the Alpha Female is always the same player. Lets just say I think it is open to abuse. This wouldn't be possible if the Alpha trait was applied to the whole team. I realise that this would screw up the dominant female Hyena feel though. Maybe I am being biased or overreacting but this really does bug me enough to feel it is a problem.

Darkson,
the injury roll would be on the injury table.

Relborn · Post by **Relborn** » Thu May 08, 2003 8:03 am

@ Galak

Your list looks very good and interesting to play for me, but why sticking to the fantasy army like names ? Call them after Bloodbowl Positions and evreything would be fine for me.

I agree that there should be the trait alpha BEAST instead of alpha female and everybody should be able to get it (but maybe not calculated after the most SPPs - maybe the most CAS could indicate this ?)[/quote]

Pitch Dark · Post by **Pitch Dark** » Thu May 08, 2003 10:57 am

Personally I think the st 2 guard version is more fluffish

I dont know how the Cockerel for chaos dwarf looks, ill check it out thought.

Galaks Cockerel looks fint, but just a bit ordinary. I think that the the st 2 guard rooser was cooler, just personal reference though.

But that would be the way i would play it if I where playing gnoll.

grotemuis · Post by **grotemuis** » Thu May 08, 2003 11:01 am

aren't gnolls though? av 8 is better

Relborn · Post by **Relborn** » Thu May 08, 2003 11:47 am

grotemuis wrote:aren't gnolls though? av 8 is better

Not necessarily and with the armor displayed on the minis, AV 7 is fine for me

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Thu May 08, 2003 12:26 pm

Pitch Dark wrote:Personally I think the st 2 guard version is more fluffish I dont know how the Cockerel for chaos dwarf looks, ill check it out thought.

Check out either the Lustrian or MBBL2 leagues. They both have a Chaos Halfling team. One position, ST 2, Guard.

IE its not a new idea (in fact Phil invented the Chaos Halfling team). If this was the team I wouldn't use it because I already have an ST 2 Guard team in my league.

Galak

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Thu May 08, 2003 12:32 pm

DaImp wrote:I do still have an issue with the possibility of coaches guaranteeing themselves a cheap star player by only buying 1 Pack Female. Even buying only 1 Pack Female on team creation and waiting for her to get 15-20 SPP before hiring more Pack Females. Thereby ensuring that the Alpha Female is always the same player. Lets just say I think it is open to abuse.

The day one 7/4/3/7 Sure Hands, Leader player is an abuse ... I need to relearn the game.

Or lets put this another way. The above player has a BB formula cost of 130k. Which means she has a 50k discount at 80k. The other 3 are then overcosted by 10k each to compensate for this. The other 2 positions are even costed so the team ends up with a 20k overall discount.

If the team has no other Females at all its still under the 60k ceiling for team building. And since the team has no access to Big Guys ... I really have no problem at all with one very breakable ST 4 player on the team.

Galak

DaImp · Post by **DaImp** » Thu May 08, 2003 5:17 pm

Tom, I was never suggesting that a 7/4/3/7 sure hands, leader player was broken. Just that at the effective price of 80k that there was a problem.

You have more experience than me at team creation so I take your further comments about cost as given. If you feel that the team is within the accepted guidelines then I can't argue.

My personal feeling is that the Alpha trait does not really fit on this team, but does fit on the str2 guard, 1 position team. The stats for the Chaos Halfling team were unknown to me at the time of making that team (although I have played against the other version of Chaos Halflings), so I understand your concerns about having a similar team. That said I still feel the str 2 guard (or from now on Gnoll Pack team) is a more interesting team. I would prefer to play that version of the team to the Spotted Hyena version of the team.

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Thu May 08, 2003 5:38 pm

I'm having one of those 24 hour periods where I probably shouldn't post ... fine .. one position.

ST 2, Guard all around ...

So if Phil adds them to the Lustrian league you'd have:

Chaos Halflings
0-16 Chaos Halfling 40,000 5 2 3 7 Guard, Stunty GM
Rerolls Cost: 70,000

And

Gnolls
0-16 Gnoll 50,000 7 2 3 7 Guard G
Rerolls Cost: 60,000

Forgive me, if the two teams just are not different enough for me to agree with both being in a league at the same time. If I'm wrong and they are very different ... tell me I'm off-kilter here.

DaImp ... see my problem is ... Phil has come up with some really great teams ... the MBBL2 uses the Chaos Halflings, Pixies, and Clan Axme Skaven which were all Phil's ideas. A little depressing for me to see a return to an already visited concept from someone whose new ideas I love.

Galak

phil · Post by **phil** » Thu May 08, 2003 5:48 pm

i'd never let the guard version and the chalflings co-exist in the lpl... they are simply too similar, and the chaflings get to stay because i love them and i'm playing them...

that said, i think the all-guard concept is a valid team design... for people without chaflings, it would be a good team design... but that's not the lpl and that's not the mbbl2...

and as for good concepts... i have some neat "out there" team ideas and i have some bog-standard balanced but not extraordinary team ideas... gnolls are one of those.... my gnoll roster is something like:
0-12 line 7337
0-4 blitzers 7337 block, strip ball
0-4 catchers 7337 catch, passblock

(i'd have to dig up my notes to confirm the details). this is a quick team based ont he idea of stealing the ball... new, playable, but lacking in glitter, if you know what i mean... i've been fostering this discussion as it's evolved not because i am looking for another roster, i've got one, but because i'm very interested in many of the good ideas coming out of this, despite not being likely to use them...

think back to the original chafling threads way back when... i had a roster i was sticking with then too, yet the discussion went on for a few weeks... in the end, the mbbl and what would become the permutations of the lpl roster diverged greatly... same thing here, only this time, neither of us will wind up with the consensus results on the books...