Why are 4th ed rules so hated?

Pedait · Post by **Pedait** » Mon Jul 01, 2002 9:17 pm

I've read everywhere 4th edition rules are *really* bad, and nobody uses them. I've never played them, so why are they so bad?

DaImp · Post by **DaImp** » Mon Jul 01, 2002 9:20 pm

only allowing 1 skill per action is one of the BIG ones...

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Tue Jul 02, 2002 12:49 am

OSPA and Appearance Fees were universally disliked.

Galak

Smeborg · Post by **Smeborg** » Tue Jul 02, 2002 3:49 am

OSPA was not univerally disliked, but it was not popular with a sizeable proportion of players because it prevented their existing favourite skill combinations being used.

Appearance fees didn't work in practice. It was too brutal. I remember having to retire as many players as I lost through "natural causes". When you start having to retire a player every other game simply because he's hit 51 SPPs, it gets silly.

The very big mistake made by JJ with 4th Edition was that you had to start all over again with teams. Appearance fees applied to an experienced 3rd Edition team effectively meant the end of the team, and OSPA tended to invalidate (or weaken) existing skill combinations on 3rd Edition teams.

So if JJ/Fanatic/GW have learnt one thing, I hope it's this: Don't change the game in a way that means every coach in the BB world has to start his team again from scratch. Some coaches can handle this, but some cannot and were quite annoyed. I should know, I was a league commissioner at the time. It's the kind of change that results in people quitting BB.

That's my reading of the reaction to 4th Edition.

Cheers

SBG · Post by **SBG** » Tue Jul 02, 2002 4:00 am

Just a little clarification needed here : OSPA not beingused anymore doesn't mean that a player with Dodge can use it more than once per turn, right?

Fred

DaImp · Post by **DaImp** » Tue Jul 02, 2002 8:48 am

Quote from the LRB:

"A player with the dodge skill is allowed to reroll the dice if he fails to dodge out of an opponets tackle zone. However the player may only reroll one failed dodge per team turn"

So yes, the rule of only 1 dodge reroll stands

SBG · Post by **SBG** » Tue Jul 02, 2002 1:14 pm

Thanks DaImp! I read the LRB, but just can't remember it by heart...

Sorry !

Fred

DaImp · Post by **DaImp** » Tue Jul 02, 2002 1:58 pm

hey, no need to appologise!

I had to look it up to make sure I was playing it correctly as well.

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Tue Jul 02, 2002 2:22 pm

Sorry Smeborg ... you are correct they were not universally hated.

Let me rephrase, the bad points of 4th edition were enough for JJ to receive a daily stream of email and snail mail complaints. Such that the entire system was removed.

Were there fans of the system ... yup a few ... they were the clear minority though.

Galak

Deathwing · Post by **Deathwing** » Tue Jul 02, 2002 2:28 pm

Don't want to go digging up dodos here, but I was one of the minority!

Smeborg · Post by **Smeborg** » Mon Jul 08, 2002 3:38 am

I'm not sure if I'm in a minority, but I liked 4th Ed. (with the exception of the Appearance Fee rules). I thought OSPA made games more competitive by making multi-skilled players less powerful, and bringing strategy to the fore.

But before someone flames me, I also liked 3rd Ed., and I also like BB2001RR. I just want everyone to play the same game.

So, while anybody can argue with this or that minor aspect of the rules, I welcome the relative stability that the BBRC rules review process has brought to the game.

Cheers

DaImp · Post by **DaImp** » Mon Jul 08, 2002 5:59 pm

I actually really liked the straight 3ed rules (with sigurds added) and was seriously contemplating using these rules for the League I run... but in the end I decided to give the 2k1 rules a chance... and I remain to be convinced they are more fun than 3ed.

Lucien Swift · Post by **Lucien Swift** » Mon Jul 08, 2002 6:12 pm

slightly modified app fees could be harnessed for good and not evil, the new winnings table makes them useless, though...

wesleytj · Post by **wesleytj** » Wed Jul 24, 2002 3:24 pm

Lucien Swift wrote:slightly modified app fees could be harnessed for good and not evil, the new winnings table makes them useless, though...

See I think that's the key. I think if you brought back appearance fees (although much weaker ones, say 10 every game to start a guy over 76 spp), you could loosen that winnigs table a LOT and still not have UBER-teams.

NightDragon · Post by **NightDragon** » Wed Jul 24, 2002 3:48 pm

I am a big fan of 3rd edition. Nothing particularly against 2k1, but it is a bit too regimental and not enough flexibility for my total liking. Still makes great games but they are not as unpredictable as 3rd. 4th ed, definately the appearance fees! Horrid.