New Idea (new thread)
Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2002 1:50 pm
Ok. The last thread has veered around a bit, so I thought I'd try this again and get back to the original suggestion:
* No modifiers to the INJ rolls.
* Casualty die discarded.
* Skills are allowed to stack.
* A few tweaks are brought in to properly accommodate player size with existing categories.
* Eliminate the casualty distinctions and rule that any player who causes a casualty gets credited with one. (This includes fouls and blocks out of bounds.)
* DP changed to either +2 to AV only or +1 to AV with the ability to assist a foul even in a TZ.
* IGMEOY discarded.
From this point, we've all branched out to explore some new ideas. Ideally, we'd like casualty rates from blocking to remain almost constant. An increase in the number of foul attempts should then pick up the remaining slack, giving us the same system (within a small degree either way) with less clutter.
Alright. With me so far? Good!
Here are the major skill suggestions and angles:
Pro
It would work on AV, but not on INJ. Because it would be almost as effective as MB on a knockdown, some wonder whether it should be a trait instead of a skill.
* Option A: As is. After all, it's still worse than MB at breaking AV.
* Option B: Move it to trait status.
* Option C: Change the success rate (2+? 6?) and classify it as a trait or skill accordingly.
Dirty Player
There's no good way to separate this skill from any talk of fouling. Best bet for fouling, IMO, remains assists like Blocks and NO +1 bonus for throwing the foul.
* Option A: +2 to AV.
* Option B: +1 to AV and the ability to assist a foul even from inside a Tackle Zone.
Piling On
This skill is supposed to be based on size, although using it as an "AV re-roll" skill has also been suggested.
* Option A: +1 for Stunties, +3 for Big Guys, +2 for everyone else. This uses size instead of ST values, just like Right Stuff.
* Option B: AV re-roll.
* Option C: Same as Option A with an extra +1 bonus across the board. This would introduce small changes for Big Guys and ST4 players.
Mighty Blow
I don't think the "convert Stun to KO" is going to work, even though I like the idea. But this seems like a simple fix: +1 to AV.
* Option A: +1 to AV only.
If you wanted to boost this skill, you could allow it to cancel Thick Skull. But TSk hardly seems overpowered.
Claw
Claw shouldn't change. This means it would be better than Mighty Blow if you rolled (AV-2), but equal in all other occasions. Some feel this isn't fair, and even though I can't understand the logic - after all, it's a physical trait that requires a doubles roll - I could suggest a few changes.
* Option A: +2 to AV (unchanged).
* Option B: +1 to AV. (The benefit comes from stacking with Mighty Blow or some other AV skill.)
* Option C: +2 to AV, -1 to all attempts to handle the ball. (I mean, have you seen the size of that thing?)
Option C would be similar to the Stunty penalty for throwing the ball. You get a sizable advantage in one area with a small penalty in another. (And I'd bet that most players with Claw don't try to handle the ball in the first place, but...)
Stunty
The +1 to INJ mod would have to go. If left in place, Stunties would suffer just as many casualties as before, only they'd suffer more deaths
I've already suggested that Goblins be reduced to AV6. This makes their stats commensurate with their cost relative to Halflings. As for Skinks, the following options exist:
* Option A: Leave them unchanged.
* Option B: Drop their AV to 6, drop their cost to 50K.
* Option C: Exchange Stunty for General skill access.
There will be plenty of talk regarding Option C in October at the request of numerous Lizardman coaches.
-----
Ok. Personally, I'm in favor of the following:
* PRO: I prefer 2+ and trait status - remember, this player "rarely, if ever, makes a mistake" - but I'd settle for 4+/skill as it stands now.
* DIRTY PLAYER: I prefer +1 to AV and the ability to assist from inside a TZ.
* PILING ON: I prefer +1/+2/+3, though I'd take +2/+3/+4 if the numbers said it wouldn't work otherwise. Ideally, I'd like this to be an AV re-roll, which would eliminate any contention about using the skill only when it's successful.
* MIGHTY BLOW: MB should be +1 to AV only.
* CLAW: I could live with any of the Claw options.
* STUNTY: I'd like to see Skinks re-gain their General skill access and lose Stunty. This would differentiate them from Goblins and Halflings.
Some combination of the above would preserve the original idea, remove most of the clutter, and address the concerns raised during my trip to Russia.
Ok! I think I'll create a chart like Teemu's to look at some of this stuff and post the results later. If you'd like to post your own thoughts as a sort of quasi-poll, why not cut and paste the following into your response?
* PRO:
* DIRTY PLAYER:
* PILING ON:
* MIGHTY BLOW:
* CLAW:
* STUNTY:
Cheers!
-Chet
* No modifiers to the INJ rolls.
* Casualty die discarded.
* Skills are allowed to stack.
* A few tweaks are brought in to properly accommodate player size with existing categories.
* Eliminate the casualty distinctions and rule that any player who causes a casualty gets credited with one. (This includes fouls and blocks out of bounds.)
* DP changed to either +2 to AV only or +1 to AV with the ability to assist a foul even in a TZ.
* IGMEOY discarded.
From this point, we've all branched out to explore some new ideas. Ideally, we'd like casualty rates from blocking to remain almost constant. An increase in the number of foul attempts should then pick up the remaining slack, giving us the same system (within a small degree either way) with less clutter.
Alright. With me so far? Good!
Here are the major skill suggestions and angles:
Pro
It would work on AV, but not on INJ. Because it would be almost as effective as MB on a knockdown, some wonder whether it should be a trait instead of a skill.
* Option A: As is. After all, it's still worse than MB at breaking AV.
* Option B: Move it to trait status.
* Option C: Change the success rate (2+? 6?) and classify it as a trait or skill accordingly.
Dirty Player
There's no good way to separate this skill from any talk of fouling. Best bet for fouling, IMO, remains assists like Blocks and NO +1 bonus for throwing the foul.
* Option A: +2 to AV.
* Option B: +1 to AV and the ability to assist a foul even from inside a Tackle Zone.
Piling On
This skill is supposed to be based on size, although using it as an "AV re-roll" skill has also been suggested.
* Option A: +1 for Stunties, +3 for Big Guys, +2 for everyone else. This uses size instead of ST values, just like Right Stuff.
* Option B: AV re-roll.
* Option C: Same as Option A with an extra +1 bonus across the board. This would introduce small changes for Big Guys and ST4 players.
Mighty Blow
I don't think the "convert Stun to KO" is going to work, even though I like the idea. But this seems like a simple fix: +1 to AV.
* Option A: +1 to AV only.
If you wanted to boost this skill, you could allow it to cancel Thick Skull. But TSk hardly seems overpowered.
Claw
Claw shouldn't change. This means it would be better than Mighty Blow if you rolled (AV-2), but equal in all other occasions. Some feel this isn't fair, and even though I can't understand the logic - after all, it's a physical trait that requires a doubles roll - I could suggest a few changes.
* Option A: +2 to AV (unchanged).
* Option B: +1 to AV. (The benefit comes from stacking with Mighty Blow or some other AV skill.)
* Option C: +2 to AV, -1 to all attempts to handle the ball. (I mean, have you seen the size of that thing?)
Option C would be similar to the Stunty penalty for throwing the ball. You get a sizable advantage in one area with a small penalty in another. (And I'd bet that most players with Claw don't try to handle the ball in the first place, but...)
Stunty
The +1 to INJ mod would have to go. If left in place, Stunties would suffer just as many casualties as before, only they'd suffer more deaths
I've already suggested that Goblins be reduced to AV6. This makes their stats commensurate with their cost relative to Halflings. As for Skinks, the following options exist:
* Option A: Leave them unchanged.
* Option B: Drop their AV to 6, drop their cost to 50K.
* Option C: Exchange Stunty for General skill access.
There will be plenty of talk regarding Option C in October at the request of numerous Lizardman coaches.
-----
Ok. Personally, I'm in favor of the following:
* PRO: I prefer 2+ and trait status - remember, this player "rarely, if ever, makes a mistake" - but I'd settle for 4+/skill as it stands now.
* DIRTY PLAYER: I prefer +1 to AV and the ability to assist from inside a TZ.
* PILING ON: I prefer +1/+2/+3, though I'd take +2/+3/+4 if the numbers said it wouldn't work otherwise. Ideally, I'd like this to be an AV re-roll, which would eliminate any contention about using the skill only when it's successful.
* MIGHTY BLOW: MB should be +1 to AV only.
* CLAW: I could live with any of the Claw options.
* STUNTY: I'd like to see Skinks re-gain their General skill access and lose Stunty. This would differentiate them from Goblins and Halflings.
Some combination of the above would preserve the original idea, remove most of the clutter, and address the concerns raised during my trip to Russia.
Ok! I think I'll create a chart like Teemu's to look at some of this stuff and post the results later. If you'd like to post your own thoughts as a sort of quasi-poll, why not cut and paste the following into your response?
* PRO:
* DIRTY PLAYER:
* PILING ON:
* MIGHTY BLOW:
* CLAW:
* STUNTY:
Cheers!
-Chet