Piling On versus Block... Some figures...

[Ithilkir]

Ok, done an experiment to find out which is more potent for gathering SPP's.

Using two Black Orcs (4/4/2/9), one with piling on, the other with block, against a basic, unskilled human lineman (6/3/3/8).

Fifty two dice blocks were rolled for each Black Orc. The number of times the players got a knockdown without themselves being knocked down were recorded (IE, SKULL results were ignored).

The Black Orc with piling on (BoBPO) had: 26 knockdowns
The Black Orc with block (BoBB) had: 40 knockdowns

Armour was then rolled for each of those knockdowns.

BoBPO beat the armour: 24 times
BoBB beat the armour: 13 times

Injuries were then rolled for.

BoBPO caused a casualty: 2 times
BoBB caused a casualty: 4 times

So, what does this tell you?

My dice are crap

[Rustycan]

Wow!! Slow down man!! You are getting way too technical for me. A very indepth study to be sure. Why didnt I think of doing this experiment.

[Munkey]

So, what does this tell you?

You have too much time on your hands?

Seriously I have some statistics calculated:

On a two dice you choose Block a Black Orc with Block is likely to get a knockdown 75% of the time against 56% of the time without.

Against AV 8 Piling On causes a casualty 14% of the time against 5% normally.

Therefore a Black Orc with Block causes a casulty 3.75% of the time and one with Pon causes a casulty 7.84% of the time. This is not accounting for Blocks where the player knocks himself down as well.

What this doesn't show however (and that i've learnt from experience) is the amount of times the player will knock himself over at a crucial time without block and the number of times the player will go down against opponents who do have block.

[Trambi]

Piling on should be on a crazy injurer, and Block for a Blocker !!

[dakkakhan]

Well this is a bit simpler, but I don't like using my brain for math, so maybe someone can tell me. Will a BoB get to his second skill quicker if he takes block as his first skill or PilingOn? Consider the BoB only gets SPP's from casualties.

Thanks,

[Zombie]

Ok, many points here.

1. You should have used probabilities, not stats. It would have taken less time and given much more accurate result.

2. You should have taken into account that a BOB who knocks himself over during a block would more than likely (say 80% or the time) use a team reroll, and included that in your calculations.

3. Piling on does give you more CAS if you figure it out properly like i said above, but since block reduces the amount of turnovers suffered, and helps put the opponent down (which are the two most important things you want when you block, CAS are just a bonus), there's no question that block is far more useful than piling on.

And as for your last question, the BOB with piling on would get his second skill faster, but the one with block would be immensely more helpful for his team in the meantime, plus he'll get block + guard faster.

[Marcus]

I'm always skeptical of the argument that you should get mighty blow, piling on etc in order to "get your 2nd skill quicker". Why? so you can get the useful skill you should have taken in the first place?

If you're only after casualties I'm sure piling on first is worthwhile; but, as Zombie said, it's not nearly the only consideration.

[SgtCaples]

The other thing that isn't accounted for, and which I am not sure CAN be accounted for is what are the chances of that Black Ork with PO living long enough to get his second skill since every time he uses his skill, he provides a no doubt vindictive opponent with an opportunity to foul him.
It also doesn't account for the fact that, if in theory, each of the two black orks described use their skills constantly, the one with block will potentially throw twice as many blocks since the one with PO would be just getting up every other turn.

[Zombie]

It also doesn't account for the fact that, if in theory, each of the two black orks described use there skills constantly, the one with block will potentially throw twice as many blocks since the one with PO would be just getting up every other turn.

Good point. And there's also the fact that if your BOB doesn't have block, you often won't risk throwing the block until your other players have moved. If a turnover occurs before that, you won't get the block at all. That gives you many less blocks as well.

[Ithilkir]

It wasn't a serious test

[Dave]

I guess that's obvious.

What kinda dice did you use??

I like the injury result most

My wood elves tend not to injure any opponent any match they play. I allways roll at least one '1' when trying to break armour.

Even Halflings are relatively safe in the hand of my woodies **sniff**

[Ithilkir]

Plastic ones

Heh, nah.. How I took the results was 'proper' and I aimed for it to be all serious and numbery, it's just when I got half way through I realised that with all the probabilities, statistics and 'easy rolls'.. They all go flying out the window when you have bad luck on the dice

[Munkey]

Ithilkir said:

I realised that with all the probabilities, statistics and 'easy rolls'.. They all go flying out the window when you have bad luck on the dice

My problem exactly, whenever I break a players armour all I ever seem to be able to roll is stuns not so bad with Wood Elves, far more disappointing with Orcs

Despite all the statistics I have learned from hard experience recently that getting POn first on a Black Orc does not speed up their advancement much, they are easier to knock down and the increased use of rerolls and amount of time they spend on the floor means they only make about half as many blocks. I guess if you really tried to Block with the player every turn as your number one priority he would gain SPPs quicker but I think your score would suffer.

[Dave]

True, but that'll be all right by me, I don't play Orcs

[xxxdvlman]

There is more to this debate then just casualty ratios between block and PO. You have to factor in your opponents turn as well. How are you going to fair against your opponents blocks, because if you start your turn on your butt its mighty hard to throw a block with PO. Also the turnovers caused drastically changes the game more so than 1 casualty. Personally I have found through not only my own experience, but that of my leagues that block is not by far, but definetely better than PO.