I don't like the handicap system

roysorlie · Post by **roysorlie** » Wed Dec 18, 2002 11:42 pm

Ok. We have a problem in my league.

The Handicap system.
1. The obvious reason. It's no fun. The cards were far more fun.
2. Rookie teams will hardly ever be able to compete with experienced teams. They won't score much, so no SSP there. They probably won't do much damage, so no SSP there. And both teams get the same amount of mvp's so all in all, the only team really benifiting, is the experianced team.

There should absolutely be some SPP benefit for rookie teams playing experianced teams. They might learn something from the opposite team, they would get far more attention playing experianced teams.

Starting a team in the middle of a league with experienced teams is no fun. You'll never catch up.

Could I get some opinions here.
We are seriously thinking of using the old system.

But I sorta wanna stick to the official ruling as well. But is is a big problem.

roysorlie · Post by **roysorlie** » Wed Dec 18, 2002 11:44 pm

Oh, and another thing. Due to the lack of good money options, rokkie teams will have a big problem when it comes to buying new players as well. And with the DP out there, they will lose some.

Mojoshenpo · Post by **Mojoshenpo** » Thu Dec 19, 2002 1:49 am

... somewhere, giving a number of cards equal to the rolls one would get on the table. In this case, only the lesser team would benefit.

Sounds (ed) good to me....

Yeah, I'd skip the table if everyone agreed....

Before the Way of Man,
There was the Way of Nature;
And, before that, The Void....
And The Void was... Peace....

Icedman · Post by **Icedman** » Thu Dec 19, 2002 3:47 am

Couldn't agree more Roy, the current Handicap system does stink just a little

We use the old (3rd Ed) handicap system in my league (come to think of it, that system, the cards, and SPP for fouling CAS are the only house rules my league runs), and I must agree with you that its a great deal of fun. When you have to try and guess what your opponent's holding, and play to draw out the cards, it makes for some fantastic BB. But anyway...

If you want suggestions on how to marry the cards/old handicap system with the new, I've got a couple ideas:
1) try Galak's idea for the cards <A HREF="http://www.midgardbb.com/BloodBowlCards.html">here</A>,

2) give the handicapped team one bonus MVP per step on the Handicap Table, startting at the second step (eg: team gets 1 Handicap roll and no bonus MVP, team gets 2 Handicap rolls and 1 bonus MVP, etc),

3) Scrap the Handicap system and use the 3rd Ed system.

If you wanted to use cards instead of Handicap rolls, then allow the player to draw a card instead of rolling on the table (maybe 1: Magic Item, 2-3 Dirty Trick, 4-6 Random Event, or something similar). Note that if/when you include the cards, the monetary problem will also be lessened, as some cards give the team money.

Warprat · Post by **Warprat** » Thu Dec 19, 2002 4:02 am

roysorlie wrote:

The Handicap system.
1. The obvious reason. It's no fun. The cards were far more fun.
2. Rookie teams will hardly ever be able to compete with experienced teams. They won't score much, so no SSP there. They probably won't do much damage, so no SSP there. And both teams get the same amount of mvp's so all in all, the only team really benifiting, is the experianced team.

There should absolutely be some SPP benefit for rookie teams playing experianced teams. They might learn something from the opposite team, they would get far more attention playing experianced teams.

Starting a team in the middle of a league with experienced teams is no fun. You'll never catch up.

I totally agree.

We never gave up the extra cards/MVP's (in Death Zone) for the new "improved" system. But we still use all the other rules, including the reduced money table. We don't use the "improved" handicap table at all.

New teams ramp up quickly, then level out about 220TR. It works out nicely for all concerned. The experienced teams get to bash and score plenty. The new teams take thier initial lumps, but grow quickly.

We really like playing with the Random Events, Magic Items, etc... They add some real fun to the game. We roll a 1d6 before every game: 1) nothing, 2-5) 1 roll, 6) 2 rolls. The tables work better than the cards because the rules were thought out more carefully to reduce play issues.

I would also suggest to anyone out there, try some random stadium rules that can be found around the net. They add a lot of flavor, and a bunch of good old fashioned fun.

Good luck to you and your group!

Warprat ;)

Grumbledook · Post by **Grumbledook** » Thu Dec 19, 2002 9:57 am

The cards were too unblancing glad they got replaced but i don't have much experience with the handicap table, just try and play teams with a nearish team rating

Blackscale · Post by **Blackscale** » Thu Dec 19, 2002 10:50 am

I agree that the 'advantages' given by the handicap table are mostly useless. Extra gold for playing against a more experienced team would help team development after the match and extra re-rolls for during match OR the re-rolls of the better team could be reduced.

roysorlie · Post by **roysorlie** » Thu Dec 19, 2002 3:02 pm

Lot's of good advice here.

Though, I admit, the old system was rather unbalanced.
I must say, Getting bankrupcy really sucked. Saving money was a real risk.

Were lot's of fun dirty tricks.

I'd like to see GW reprint the cards.

But it is not uncommon in my league that some teams play more than other teams, and not uncommed a player gets bored with his team, or has to retire it.

But starting from scratch in an experienced league is very very difficult. You will almost always become the underdog. With no chance to even out with the other teams.

I much prefer the 3d edition system. Lot's more fun, and gives starting teams a chance after a few matches.

Skummy · Post by **Skummy** » Thu Dec 19, 2002 3:24 pm

I agree that the handicap table could use be a whole lot stonger, but I disagree that a team starting out can't catch up to teams who have been competing for a while. Our league played 2 full tournaments, had three coaches join, and have just now started our fourth tournament. All three coaches have developed some very dangerous teams that will be real threats in the future. It takes time and good coaching, but aging and the new money system will let you catch up to experienced teams.

kaboom · Post by **kaboom** » Sat Dec 21, 2002 1:41 pm

it was funn with the card, but now u must play whith more strategy!
u can play whith le 3rd edition rule if u want!!

Snew · Post by **Snew** » Sat Dec 21, 2002 2:11 pm

GAAck! I hate those cards. Quit talking about them now. The tables in BBMag2 are only marginally better. There are still extreme, score costing events in there. (metter, mutter) hate that dog...(mumble)

When we tried the handicap, we found it didn't even out the matches, though. Some things were too extreme, others utterly useless. Guess which events we usually got. For that reason, and because the tables have funnier events, we use the tables in the mag like Warprat suggested. @#$% dog!!!

Icanus · Post by **Icanus** » Sat Dec 21, 2002 3:10 pm

i hated the old cards. they could destroy the most well-working offense, to much luck in that.

but i think the new handicap system could need some more balance too. there is to much difference between '1d6 extra cheerleaders for this match' and 'd3 randomly selected players must roll a d6 before a new drive starts, on 1-3 they may not set up'...

I lost my best Orcblitzer (13 Team-Rating) last game because my opponent had this assasin-thing and my apotecary was incompetent...

Bob-the-Fish · Post by **Bob-the-Fish** » Sat Dec 21, 2002 4:04 pm

What I liked about the cards was the unpredictability they added to the game. You could get lucky and actually stop a one turn scoring Gutter Runner. And what about Magic Helmet? Now I don't hink there is any way for most teams to improve their armour, but they can lose armour from injuries. I don't hink the cards should be brought back in the same form but the handicap table really sucks. Almost everything on it just gives you a re-roll, and you don't need those against teams you can't get the ball from at all. Just bringing back some of the old results that were good fo a team and balancing out the rest of the table so there aren't all the useless rolls.
And give extra MVPs.

Snew · Post by **Snew** » Sat Dec 21, 2002 5:36 pm

Screw the extra MVPs. I don't agree with those at all. Choose your opponents wisely and you can have more MVPs on your team than a much more experienced one. I know they tried to balance things out with them but I don't think they did the job that well. It's true that, now, with the lame handicap table there is absolutely no incentive to play a stronger team but the extra MVPs are NOT the way to go.

Warprat · Post by **Warprat** » Sat Dec 21, 2002 8:24 pm

Snots Wrote:

Choose your opponents wisely and you can have more MVPs on your team than a much more experienced one.

HUH, what does that mean?

Then Snots Wrote:

It's true that, now, with the lame handicap table there is absolutely no incentive to play a stronger team but the extra MVPs are NOT the way to go.

What is the way to go?

I don't know... I've played a number of 100TR difference games. Not 200-300, but 100-200. The only thing that makes it worth playing for the weaker TR team is the three extra MVP's you get. You sure don't score any touchdowns. Even Elf teams can beat the crap out of 100TR Strenght teams.

Of course there is lots of benefit for the High TR team. Man, it's touchdown city, even for Dwarf slugs. It's hard to do better on causualties, however, when the opposing team is already all layed out on the field, with little reason to get up.

My personal feeling, and I hope I'm wrong, is that the BBRC really has no feeling for the starting coach, and would like High TR teams to keep the upper hand untill the ineffectual Ageing rules somehow ballence thing out.

Warprat ;)

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I don't like the handicap system

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