Are any teams balanced?

Darkson · Post by **Darkson** » Fri Jan 24, 2003 7:43 am

Said tongue in cheek

Over the last couple of weeks or so, I seend threads saying (vanilla) Undead, dwarves, lizzies and god knows what else are over-powered.

So, are any of th teams balanced?

My personal view is all the LRB teams are balanced against each other (except Gobbos and 'Flings, as should be) and the jurys still out on the BB Mag ones (though probably not).

Grumbledook · Post by **Grumbledook** » Fri Jan 24, 2003 7:49 am

Hmm i just got my scales out and no they aren't balenced. Halflings apear to be rather light compared to most races, while the choas dwarfs and orcs are the heavier ones. I think its due to the size of the players more than anything.

Darkson · Post by **Darkson** » Fri Jan 24, 2003 7:54 am

Post by **DoubleSkulls** » Fri Jan 24, 2003 9:31 am

I think the races are balanced enough that it all comes down to coaching skill...

Zombie · Post by **Zombie** » Fri Jan 24, 2003 10:30 am

Orcs have never been balanced. But that's the only race i can think of that causes problems.

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Fri Jan 24, 2003 11:12 am

Zombie wrote:Orcs have never been balanced. But that's the only race i can think of that causes problems.

Now Zombie how can you say that. I agree they have one turn options, ST 4 players, etc. etc. But the raw data just doesn't agree that they are.

In terms of winning percentage:

FUMBBL Stats: Orcs are 11th out of the 15 races with over 1,600 games played in the league.
http://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=stats ... v=&order=8

MBBL Stats: Orcs are 11th out of the 15 races with 141 games played in the league.
http://www.midgardbb.com/MBBL/MBBL_RaceStats.htm

Both of these leagues are straight up LRB rules leagues

Orcs have not been 1st or 2nd in any of recent tournaments either.

So I don't see them having balance problems in either league or tournament format. I understand your point on paper, just no seeing it real life.

Galak

Ghost of Pariah · Post by **Ghost of Pariah** » Sun Jan 26, 2003 4:01 am

I think alot of times in new leagues a group of coaches see one coach unlock some great strategy with a certain team and then they get frustrated. They don't see any way to stop the coach and his juggernaut and the easiest argument is to cry "unfair!"

It;s easier to blame game balance than to say, "I don't defens well vs. Orcs."

Zombie · Post by **Zombie** » Sun Jan 26, 2003 7:11 am

Galak, that's because most people who play orcs are relative newbies. We both know the team is a little too good. With star players (even freebooted), it's not even funny.

dakkakhan · Post by **dakkakhan** » Sun Jan 26, 2003 4:15 pm

I totally appreciate anyone that wants to work on "balancing" a team. To me it is totally arbitrary and boring work.

I suggest anyone that wants total balance should play Necromunda where every gang starts with the same exact stat line. BOR-RING! For me I'll take the variety that Bloodbowl provides and deal with new teams as Fanatic creates them, or my opponents play them.

I love orks. The fact that they are normally run by Newbies is part of their allure. They are simple and straightforward in fluff and in basic strategy. Once those newbies decide they want to push the envelope of the rules etc. they move on to another team that is more one dimensional.

Relborn · Post by **Relborn** » Mon Jan 27, 2003 9:00 am

Personally I don't see Orcs as THAT overpowererd. Okay they have some very good options. At best I would like to see the Goblins beeing reduced from the team list - they shouldn't be there ... right ?

Concerning Starplayers, well they unbalance the game definately ... as not every team has the same quality of Starplayers available (if they have any official at all).

Zombie · Post by **Zombie** » Mon Jan 27, 2003 1:32 pm

Well, it seems that we pretty much agree on the subject. My thought on this subject is that goblins should be taken off the orc team list, and star players should not be allowed to be freebooted in playoffs unless you've freebooted them at least twice during the regular season.

Heiper · Post by **Heiper** » Mon Jan 27, 2003 3:20 pm

Like your twist on the Star Players, very nice house rule. And goblins, yeah they should be removed from the team list.

Post by **DoubleSkulls** » Mon Jan 27, 2003 3:34 pm

Zombie wrote:star players should not be allowed to be freebooted in playoffs unless you've freebooted them at least twice during the regular season.

I don't see why you have to discourage them from the playoffs. Isn't the point that rather than having them for normal games they are one off hires for special occassions. I don't see what your rule achieves. What is it meant to do?

los_locos · Post by **los_locos** » Mon Jan 27, 2003 4:52 pm

Everything is pretty well balanced out, Ok orcs a good and relatively easy to play, but I don't think they are overpowered. What do you think of undead with mummies are mummies not overpowered, there as good as big guys but with no nega-traits, I believe not because undead also has a lack of speed and ballhandeling, a good coach can beat every team!!!!!!!!!!
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LOCO

Milo · Post by **Milo** » Mon Jan 27, 2003 5:26 pm

Another thing to consider is that some teams peak at different times during a season. Orcs clearly have an early season advantage, since they have a wealth of position players who are inexpensive enough to start with on your roster. Elves struggle out of the gate due to the high cost of players, but make up for it later in the season when their players can all become serious scoring threats. Dwarves, Norse, and Amazons also start hot, due to Block or Dodge on almost every player, but Norse and Amazons see their benefits removed once other teams acquire the SPPs to get Block and/or Tackle. Furthermore, the Norse and Amazons will see more casualties against them due to the AV7 once teams have stocked up on injury-causing skills like Mighty Blow, Dirty Player, and Piling On.

It's probably true that none of the teams are 100% balanced against each and every other team, but I think there's a good balance that provides every coach a chance to win with any race on any given sunday. That's the goal, really. If all the teams were perfectly balanced, there could be very little variation between them, and that would be boring.

Milo