Orc teams too powerful?

roysorlie · Post by **roysorlie** » Tue Feb 04, 2003 9:05 am

It seems to me the orc teams is overpowered.

I actually get scared when playing them..

4 Blackorcs.. 4 Blitzers and 2 throwers make 10 positional player, including the ogre or troll. Not to forget you have goblins aswell.
And cheap, highly armouored lineorcs in the bargain.

That gives you 4 st 4 guys, 1 st 5 guy, 4 guys ready equipped with block, a fairly good thrower, and a team full of AV 9.

What if all these blackorcs and the ogre goes piling on?

Am I the only one who feels this way?

(Although, to be honest, I ususally beat them every time with my HE, but I truly belive that is creditwed to my coaching, more than the value of the players.)

The other elfs players lose to them.

Heiper · Post by **Heiper** » Tue Feb 04, 2003 9:20 am

Orc is probably the best team with the LRB rules. I would like to see the goblins gone, but keeping the rest isn't a problem for me. Ahh, maybe getting rid of the Ogre and only have access to Troll would be nice. Don't expect to see anything of this soon tho, maybe next October review.

Marcus · Post by **Marcus** » Tue Feb 04, 2003 9:22 am

No, they're not overpowered. They're a strong league team, but not overpowered.
No, you're not the only person who feels this way.

If you manage to win against them with your high elves but other coaches do not, then you're a better coach than they are. Go home and sleep well tonight.

narkotic · Post by **narkotic** » Tue Feb 04, 2003 9:35 am

You should not discuss about an orc team someone will have at the end of the league season.
No starting orc team will have the line up you suggested, unless you want to play with 10-11 players, 1RR and a crap FF and no healer. Believe me white that line-up you will have a hard time.
But when you start with a moderate line-up and begin building your team as you suggested, the other teams will build up too.
When you reached your fav. line-up you will face Skaven teams with 3 one-turn scoring guter runners, Elves/Dark Elves who pass a long bomb on a 2+ etc. The orc team is good bc. its heavy pounding without being too slow, and has much flexibility in position players choice. But if you let them beat you into oblivion, either you screwed all you blocks or you you should change you tactics for your agile team.

By the way, I'm scared all the time when playing BB

(except against Gobbos)

Princelucianus · Post by **Princelucianus** » Tue Feb 04, 2003 9:38 am

I played them twice this weekend.....

I had no clue how to get through. But that's just me I'm afraid.

Strong team with excellent players. I dislike them as opponents, but they can be beaten....

Lucy

roysorlie · Post by **roysorlie** » Tue Feb 04, 2003 9:46 am

Well.. it is a tell tale sign, the two leading teams in my league are orc teams. All well and good I manage to beat them, and most others, that still has only granted me a solid 3rd place. Most likely I will advance to second place shortly.

All the other teams are Waaay down on points. Whatever they play. They always lose either to the orc teams, or me.

My being the most experianced coach of the lot has given me an advantage, but I still think that a coach shouldn't need to be far more experianced to be able to beat the orc team.

And say the orc team just decides to freebood Thrud, or some other st5/6 fellow once in a while?

Most teams don't have that luxuary.

I'm not saying they are terribly overpowered, just overpowered. Like Heiper, my esteemed countryman said, they are the best team all in the LRB.

And Narkotic; Of course no orc team will start with that lineup. But have you ever played elves? Are you aware how expensive Elf players are? I hardly ever buy an apoth for first match when playing elves. if one of them dies, or get seriously injured, ie stat reductions og Niggling, I scrap the teams, and make a new one. I'd rather spend the money on a reroll, and take my chances, and buy the apoth after that match.

I'm not saying 1 turn wonders aren't cheesey, but any half decent orc team should be able to pound Skaven to shit. low armour, no dodge like the elves, honestly. And besides, one turn scorers are only useful when you receive the ball.

I only get to receive once per match.. he he he, so I don't really need them. My last for matches I won, 4-1, 4-0, 4-1 and 5-1. But I have been tempered playing against Orcs, Chaos, Dwarfs and undead all my BB career, So I know very well how to defeat them.

Grumbledook · Post by **Grumbledook** » Tue Feb 04, 2003 9:49 am

Well just look at the tournament results, orc teams have not fared that well. Just ask deathwing ;]

Heiper · Post by **Heiper** » Tue Feb 04, 2003 10:13 am

I know theres not been many Tournaments yet with LRB rules, but does anyone have any statistics on the teams that was on Res? I know lizzies won, but any statistics would be fun to see.

Overall in 3rd Ed, what team won most Tournaments? I started to play pretty late (around the time Gold Edition came out) so I would be intrested to see any stats or anything about that time.

Back to Orcs, in my league also we have a dominating Orc team, and we play with fixed fixtures, so he has play just as many games as the rest of the league. But he playes the way I like it (troll and no goblins), so I guess its more the coach than anything else. Unbeat in 7 games now. I guess my woodies will do better when they get started to develop, but right now he seems to be winning the league (3 games left)

Our league is split in two tho, so the other league is a close race between Dwarf, Human, Chaos and Undead (no orcs in that league and yes, there is more than those 4

(elf team as good as killed, with 4 deaths the 4 first games) and seem more balanced, again this could be that the coaches here are more equal overall. But from what I this far in my league is that Orc is a very good team, hard to play against for everyone but experienced coaches. A view from cold Norway

(can't see why noone is playing Norse in my league tho, should have been lots)

Sixpack595 · Post by **Sixpack595** » Tue Feb 04, 2003 10:16 am

I am running an orc team in my current league. I'm 2-4. I played TR 100 teams 4 times, and I almost allways won before this team. Compared to Chaos, Gobbos, and Flings they are overpowered. Compared to the other teams, equal at best. This is a slow team that needs skills to run a good passing game. Good luck hammering on Lizards, Khemri, or even vanilla Undead. No chance of scoring like Rats, any Elves, or Humans. Orcs are OK at bashing OK at scoring. I'd say they are average just like almost every other team except stunties. As it should be.

Marcus · Post by **Marcus** » Tue Feb 04, 2003 10:29 am

We have a couple of highly placed orc teams in the ECBBL. One goes bash heavy and gets a lot of high casualty victories, the other is coached by Ian who would be in the top 4 regardless of what he coached.

I'm vying with Ian for top spot at the moment with a Skaven team. Our games are always pretty close, I don't think he has any significant advantage because he uses orcs.

I won the WPS Club Challenge event using Orcs. I certainly didn't dominate the event, 2nd and 3rd were lizards and dwarves if I remember correctly. Again, that was down to the skill of the coaches IMO.

Post by **DoubleSkulls** » Tue Feb 04, 2003 11:16 am

Sixpack595 wrote:Compared to Chaos, Gobbos, and Flings they are overpowered.

Gobbos and Flings are supposed to be useless. Chaos are slow to get going, but a TR 250 Chaos team can be fearsome.

Orcs aren't overpowered. Even my stat heavy orcs suffer from lots of slow immobile players.

Deathwing · Post by **Deathwing** » Tue Feb 04, 2003 11:32 am

Grumbledook wrote:Well just look at the tournament results, orc teams have not fared that well. Just ask deathwing ;]

roysorlie · Post by **roysorlie** » Tue Feb 04, 2003 11:47 am

It is curious though, that many people feel Orcs are overpowering.

Sure, undead can sport two mummies (LRB undead), but their gouhls and skels and zombies aren't that impressive, and orcs can make up for one mummy with an ogre or troll, and the remaining 4 black orcs pretty much makes up for the other mummy, and then some. All orcs hav AV 9, (cept the thrower).
Chaos also has 4 st 4 and a st 5, but not 10 positional players, only 4.
They don't get 4 blitzers with block and av9. and a ball handler.

Dwarfs only get 1 st 5, but their basic players com equipped with half the skill list. Still Most dwarf teams lose to orcs. If the blackorcs have a blitzer or two with guard around them, to works against all the dwarfs with guard, it's no big problem.

I feel there is little doubt that orcs are by a fair margin, the best power team. They have all the benefits of being a power team, and hardly any disadvantage. They are only impeded by not enjoying any benefits a fast team would have.

It doesn't bother me all that much, cuz I out coach them, but many people have a very hard time winning a match against orcs, choached by someone with a little experiance.

Trambi · Post by **Trambi** » Tue Feb 04, 2003 12:09 pm

The orc team is simply the best official strong team. But I don't think they are overpowered (the best tactik : you slow down them). And with 6 of movement for the faster players, you can easily have difficulties to score (and to defend against fast teams).

Deathwing · Post by **Deathwing** » Tue Feb 04, 2003 12:10 pm

Tournament results do not bear out the theory that Orcs are overpowered.
Nor do online Pbem or Java Leagues. Nor do most online leagues that can be found on the web.

I'm not intending to be personally offensive to anybody here, but I really am getting tired of reading that 'this-or-that team is unbalanced' based on their experiences in their own tabletop leagues, when there's a wealth of information out there that suggests otherwise.
For 'this team is unbalanced' read 'the coaches in our league have difficulty coping with x coach playing y team'.

I'll put some tourney stats up later, as requested by Heiper.