Thoughts about the EXP system

martynq · Post by **martynq** » Fri Mar 21, 2003 2:07 pm

Rather than tack this onto the end of one of the long discussions we've had about the EXP system, I thought I would start a new thread so it would actually be noticed.

My dark elf team has played 11 matches in the MBBL and I have 13 players (I've suffered three deaths) and one of my players has got to 7 EXP and failed his aging roll at the end of the 11th match. He will miss the 12th game, which (together with the fact that one player was SId in the 11th match) means I will only have 11 players for the next match.

I have been saying that I think that there should not be MNG occurrences on the aging table and I think that what has just happened to my team backs it up. With the LRB system, you might suffer something negative to a player early on but at least the player is still available if you don't have very many. For a team 13 or less players, missing one makes a considerable difference.

There was talk of moving the aging roll to 7EXPs rather than 6EXPs, but my team would also suffer under this.

My opinion is that all the MNGs should be removed from the aging table and it should only have permanent negative effects (or "nothing happens"). Otherwise the situation that has happened to my team will just continue to happen but with increasingly worse effects (more players missing).

Thoughts? Does this make sense?

Cheers,
Martyn

Princelucianus · Post by **Princelucianus** » Fri Mar 21, 2003 2:23 pm

When I roll on the ageing table, and it results in a NI, then he'll only not play if I roll a 1 during the pre match sequence. I don't remember there was a MNG result on the ageing table????

Lucy

Blackscale · Post by **Blackscale** » Fri Mar 21, 2003 2:36 pm

me neither.

I just checked the LRB 2.0 and there is no mention of MNG on ageing.

roysorlie · Post by **roysorlie** » Fri Mar 21, 2003 2:41 pm

Princelucianus wrote:When I roll on the ageing table, and it results in a NI, then he'll only not play if I roll a 1 during the pre match sequence. I don't remember there was a MNG result on the ageing table????

Lucy

I expect he means the EXP system (they use in the MBBL??)
And comments his experiances as a playtester.

And Martyn, The EXP system will be a lot more lenient in the early matches than aging is, but will be a lot more nasty when you've played alot of games. When nearly all you players have 6 exp, you will statistically nearly have 3 players (with a full roster) each game that something happes to.

The aging system is better in regards to damage later on.
But the EXP system also fixes issues regarding low TR playing high TR and not gaining anything. (No extra MVP's)
Or, at least compensates better.

Princelucianus · Post by **Princelucianus** » Fri Mar 21, 2003 2:48 pm

I have reread it, and I start to see the point. Maybe a short explanation would have helped me '' o Yea of li'll knowlegde''...

Lucy

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Fri Mar 21, 2003 3:05 pm

Martyn,

I realize that this is entirely my own opinion. But I look forward to the team management decisions that EXP causes. At what point should you retire a higher EXP person and bring in new blood to keep your team competitive. I personally think that EXP adds in elements of team management in a long term league that will be refreshing to the game.

Next Season of the MBBL, the EXP system will be changed to the following:

1) 6 will still be the # of EXPs needed for future 1s to cause again.
2) MVPs will be added back as part of the game ... so your team will be getting 60 SPPs at the end of Season 2 as we re-introduce MVPs.
3) At 6 EXPs, the players will be given Pro
4) Instead of a special table, an aging failures will results in rolls on Serious Injury table

The goal here is simple and its one I like. Ramp up teams on the growth curve making it easier for rookie teams to enter leagues. And since old players have Pro, you'll have to weight their skills vs the risk of them sitting out a game on a post match 6.

I also like removing easy Pro access from the Big Guys and Vampires ... making those nega-traits a little more negative is a good thing ... (Please note ... this from a guy about to lose Pro on his Treeman).

Guess ... I see this more as a chance to really dig into team management and look forward to it. I realize not everyone sees it that way.

Also you've commented Martyn that your MBBL and MBBL2 having played more games than any tabletop team you ever played. LRB Aging would have hit these teams ... it only because you've played this team for 11 games that they've entered this stage. IE ... your teams in table top experience would not have been effected by EXP at all other than as a positive way to gain SPPs.

Just my rambling thoughts.

Galak

martynq · Post by **martynq** » Fri Mar 21, 2003 3:23 pm

Galak,

No worries about it being your opinion - what I posted was after all just my opinion.

What I was trying to say is that I feel that I have battled really hard to keep this team going despite suffering three deaths. I don't really feel that 13 players is very much to show for a team that has completed 11 matches... I would have expected to be much closer to a full roster. (And I believe in some ways I am actually helped by not having gained the 60 SPPs that come from MVPs - this would raise my TR by 12 and result in reduced or even negative modifiers on the winnings table.) Now the MNG result that occurs due to aging has significant impact - I would love to retire players with high EXP, but I don't have the choice because I'm struggling to have enough to field 11 at the start of a match. These MNGs just make it harder for someone who has been unlucky and suffered deaths.

Does that make sense?

Martyn

P.S. Apologies for those that didn't know about the different aging table for EXP - I'd hoped that having EXP in the subject title would have given some clue to the nature of what I was talking about.

mrinprophet · Post by **mrinprophet** » Fri Mar 21, 2003 3:47 pm

I think I really like the exp system. I just started in a league (LPL) that uses it so I'm looking forward to experiencing some actual results to solidfy my thoughts. With that said, I'm not too keen on the new idea of giving every player that reaches 6EXPs the PRO skill. Again, this is just a prelimary reaction, but somehow having 13 guys available (assuming three miss) that have a 50% chance at rerolling an action every turn just sounds extreme.

Galak, if the MVPs come back, are the EXPs still counted for SPPs? Also, am I correct there is a 2.77% chance (1 in 36) of the player dying each game due to aging, once a player reaches 6 exps? (1 on d6 for aging, then 1 on d6 on Sigurd's table for the injury roll).

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Fri Mar 21, 2003 4:13 pm

mrinprophet wrote:With that said, I'm not too keen on the new idea of giving every player that reaches 6EXPs the PRO skill. Again, this is just a prelimary reaction, but somehow having 13 guys available (assuming three miss) that have a 50% chance at rerolling an action every turn just sounds extreme.

From what I'm seeing ... I don't think that's going to happen. I think the days of full rosters is pretty much gone (unless you play a Stunty team). Its going to be building a solid group of rolling 13 some odd players (rolling meaning retireing and rookie replacement). Pro will be there ... but not to the extent that you think ... also it helps avoid the argument made by some about players not really getting skills or development before again. This would guarantee that no player would have less than 2 extra skills before aging could begin.

Galak, if the MVPs come back, are the EXPs still counted for SPPs? Also, am I correct there is a 2.77% chance (1 in 36) of the player dying each game due to aging, once a player reaches 6 exps? (1 on d6 for aging, then 1 on d6 on Sigurd's table for the injury roll).

EXPs would still count for SPPs and its not going to change to a roll on Casualty table ... its changing to a roll on the Serious Injury table ... BIG DIFFERENCE.

Galak

Joaquim · Post by **Joaquim** » Fri Mar 21, 2003 4:16 pm

Giving back MVP... this won't cause the teams to have less players?!... better players, but less?...
Perhaps making elf teams have harrder time trying to field 11?

Giving PRO at 6 EXP... looks good... and fluffy... but I don't get why you will lose PRO on the treeman... the fact the PRO is given at EXP 6 don't need to mean you cann't pick it earlier - wich means you don't get any bonus at EXP 6...
Or if you want PRO to become exclusive of EXP6+ players, wich looks good... I would say next seasson nobody can pick PRO (but players with PRO would keep it), or allow those players who have PRO to trade it for another general skill... or at least by Kick (wich I think would be the last skill picked for those players...

)..

martynq · Post by **martynq** » Fri Mar 21, 2003 4:23 pm

GalakStarscraper wrote:Its going to be building a solid group of rolling 13 some odd players (rolling meaning retireing and rookie replacement).

its changing to a roll on the Serious Injury table ... BIG DIFFERENCE.

So I shouldn't be surprised that I've only got 13 players on my roster? I guess it'll look completely different with the MVPs and perhaps I'll have a completely different view of the whole thing, just at the moment I don't really feel I've got that much development going on and certainly very little depth to my squad. It's a case of fielding the 11 players who are available (who don't seem to have that many skills to rub between them at the moment).

Martyn

Grumbledook · Post by **Grumbledook** » Fri Mar 21, 2003 5:33 pm

Can i just ask what was the thinking of bringing back the MVPs and the reason why players should get pro at 6exp. Would this not just give most of every team pro. Personally I don't like the idea of that, so what was the thinking behind it?

I though dropping the MVPs was in order to use it for the exp colum on the roster, as adding an extra one was undesirable, so isn't this just backtracking?

High & Mighty · Post by **High & Mighty** » Fri Mar 21, 2003 6:09 pm

You wouldn't expect a whole team of Pro's to exist because the idea is that no one would keep 14 or 15 players on their roster all at 6 EXPs given that 1-3 might be expected to have an aging effect after each game.

Galak, but does this mean that players will no longer be allowed to select Pro as a skill? If they can still pick it, does this mean they just don't get anything at 6 SPPs? Specifically to the MBBL conversion, if we've already given a player Pro, does this mean that we will have to/be forced to change that skill to something else?

Grumbledook · Post by **Grumbledook** » Fri Mar 21, 2003 6:37 pm

i think having that many players missing games that often to enduce player turnover seems a bit heavy

my opinion might change after experienceing it though, how many games is it a player has until they get their first roll ?

mrinprophet · Post by **mrinprophet** » Fri Mar 21, 2003 6:40 pm

Ah, Serious Injury Table.....must...read...closer! That definitely makes a big difference.

With regard to PRO, I share the same concerns as those who posted above. While I realize there will likely be more player turnover, I'm just not sure I like the idea of PRO being dished out for reaching 6EXPs. That's a whole lot of rerolling attempts for two well-established teams. That said, I'm interested in seeing what the results of the MBBL tests are. Does anyone have thoughts on the effect of table-top games? I love to roll dice, but it could become cumbersome. I don't mind making the EXP roll, but that's because it's one time for each player at the end of the game, but if half my squad has pro, as with my opponent, that could become mildly irritating.