Do Dwarves even need a big guy?

Ithilkir · Post by **Ithilkir** » Mon Apr 14, 2003 4:07 pm

They already have access to multiple players with block that can gain guard on the first Star Player roll, two dauntless players and a deathroller as a secret weapon or star player.

Do Dwarves really need a big guy to stay competitive?

narkotic · Post by **narkotic** » Mon Apr 14, 2003 4:11 pm

NO, and even less so, if the SW rules become somehow official, allowing them the DR on a more regual basis.

sean newboy · Post by **sean newboy** » Mon Apr 14, 2003 4:13 pm

My belief is no. Nor do i think High Elves either, or Wood Elves. Halflings and Goblins are the only teams that need Big Guys. Some dont need them but should have 1 available, Skaven and Lizzies, for fluff and the fact that at least in the Skaven teams they do need an occasional st boost.

Agentrock · Post by **Agentrock** » Mon Apr 14, 2003 5:29 pm

narkotic wrote:the SW rules become somehow official, allowing them the DR on a more regual basis.

Curious, what are the "SW" and "DR" rules?

horekim · Post by **horekim** » Mon Apr 14, 2003 7:28 pm

Secret Weapons and Death Roller

Agentrock · Post by **Agentrock** » Mon Apr 14, 2003 7:31 pm

Gotcha, thanks!

narkotic · Post by **narkotic** » Tue Apr 15, 2003 12:17 am

You should TL the ZAT in order to ROLP the FK! (ah, and don't LT the DB)

Abbreviations are horrible, I know

Post by **Thadrin** » Tue Apr 15, 2003 7:20 am

Didn't we just have this conversation?????
viewtopic.php?p=76657&highlight=#76657

Redfang · Post by **Redfang** » Tue Apr 15, 2003 7:25 am

Practically all the other Str teams out there have 4 blocker positions with Str4, (all except Norse, in fact,) and they all have a Big Guy. Once those blockers get block, and maybe a second skill, it will get real tough for Dwarfs to break through the line; They'll see themselves forced more and more to take 2 die blocks with the opponent chosing, since dodging away isn't going to work and sure there'll be lots of Guard players, but Guard can easily be evaded. Furthermore the Dwarfs will see themselves get blocked more and more and then Guard really isn't enough.

A Big Guy, or high Str player of any kind, then is very handy to block some Dwarfs free who can then assist other Dwarfs into taking at least 1 dice blocks. An ogre assisted by 4 BO is just too much for Str3 Dwarfs to take down or evade.

So, once again: I don't like the idea of Ogres on a Dwarf team, but Dwarfs do need something to help them out against all the other ogres out there and all those Str4 Blockers. (It's the combination of ogres and Str4 Blockers that's too much for them.) That's why I think SW should be a permanent addition to a team as they were in the 4th edition rules. Then they would be suitable to replace Big Guys in Dwarf teams.

R

MistWraith · Post by **MistWraith** » Tue Apr 15, 2003 12:09 pm

Which is why they have slayers. Give them multi-Block and sebd them to work.

Redfang · Post by **Redfang** » Tue Apr 15, 2003 12:17 pm

Tried Multiple Block once, but it was way to complicated I thought (both the rules were unclear and the possible uses too) Now frenzy can't be used together with Multiple Block anymore, it should be better though.

Still, if only 2 AV 8 players who already are the main targets in your team is all you have to protect you from 4 Str4 Av9 and a Str5 Av 9 player, that's not much!

R

Mestari · Post by **Mestari** » Tue Apr 15, 2003 1:19 pm

I have to agree with Redfang. Lack of high ST is the downfall of dwarven teams nowadays in longer leagues if they can't even take an ogre.

Drop the ogre and give them two ST4 blockers instead and I'll be satisfied.

Snew · Post by **Snew** » Tue Apr 15, 2003 2:23 pm

Mestari wrote:I have to agree with Redfang. Lack of high ST is the downfall of dwarven teams nowadays in longer leagues if they can't even take an ogre.

Drop the ogre and give them two ST4 blockers instead and I'll be satisfied.

By your theory, Elves need 2 Big Guys. Sorry, it just doesn't hold water with me.

Redfang · Post by **Redfang** » Tue Apr 15, 2003 2:25 pm

Elves are not a Strength team; they have other weapons to defend themselves with, such as High AG (and dodge) allowing them to dodge away from Blockers and Big Guys, they also have a very good throwing game and a high mobility, which Dwarfs also lack

R

MistWraith · Post by **MistWraith** » Tue Apr 15, 2003 2:30 pm

Only Stunty teams should have more than one. But, even the two elf teams (and any other team without) that currently do not have a Big Guy should be allowed one.

The key is to balance the Big Guy they can have, so that him negatives are equel to the positves of having him. This way the team balance stays the same. Currently this is not the case, as most teams that can have big guys take the oger, who is almost all positves with very little negative. Thus the game becomes "oger ball".

Maybe they should look into making boneheaded more negative.