Talk Fantasy Football

Posted: **Tue Apr 15, 2003 2:47 pm**

I know a lot of you play BB online, but I have a real league with real live players that have to drive to the gaming hall or set up matches on saturday and try to get more players interested with some advertising and just having the game visible.

The issue is we're in week 2 and have five hardcore coaches, three that are just about to start playing and about five more people that will drift in from time to time. The hardcore coaches have a team rating around 120 already and with the current LRB handicap table, new teams have NO reason to play anyone that has a team rating over theirs, it would be best for them in EVERY way to avoid such players until forced to play them in a league-capping single elimination tournament.

This is just not acceptable to our league who is trying to bring in new players and though they may suffers some losses at the hands of the more experienced coach, higher TR team, we don't want them quitting the league because they feel like since their team is behind already, they have no chance to catch up at alll, especially with the constant drubbings they recieve (brand new players to BB typically lose their first six games, if not more anyway).

I think that the complaining about the Handicap system of 3rd edition 'powering' up teams to quickly has changed a game mechanic that helped keep lower TR teams and new players in the league by bribing them with team improvements to play the drubbing, crushing, super high scoring teams. As a league organizer, I think it's very important that the LRB handicap system gets scrapped because it's doesn't have a positive effect on keeping people playing and the number of coaches with 100-170 team rating are the majority and the number with 'overpowered' 200+ are definately in the minority.

littlemute

Posted: **Tue Apr 15, 2003 3:21 pm**

My two leagues are using different tables starting in a week .... I'd HIGHLY recommend using one of these two tables instead of the official LRB one. I think you'll be much happier with how it all works.

New handicap table for the MBBL - Season 3:

Code: Select all

11 BAD HABITS: The opposing team loses one Team Re-roll for this match only.
12 BAD HABITS: The opposing team loses one Team Re-roll for this match only.
13 BAD HABITS: The opposing team loses one Team Re-roll for this match only.
14 BAD PRESS: Libelous stories you have spread cut the opposing team's Fan Factor in half (rounding up) for this match only.
15 BAD PRESS: Libelous stories you have spread cut the opposing team's Fan Factor in half (rounding up) for this match only.
16 BAD PRESS: Libelous stories you have spread cut the opposing team's Fan Factor in half (rounding up) for this match only.
21 EXTRA TRAINING: Your team has worked long and hard all week for this opponent. You may take an extra Team Re-roll to use for this match only.
22 EXTRA TRAINING: Your team has worked long and hard all week for this opponent. You may take an extra Team Re-roll to use for this match only.
23 EXTRA TRAINING: Your team has worked long and hard all week for this opponent. You may take an extra Team Re-roll to use for this match only.
24 INTENSIVE TRAINING: One of your players has been working very hard in anticipation of today's match. Pick a player on your team. He may take one extra skill to use for this match only, just as if he had rolled a New Skill result on the Star Player table.
25 INTENSIVE TRAINING: One of your players has been working very hard in anticipation of today's match. Pick a player on your team. He may take one extra skill to use for this match only, just as if he had rolled a New Skill result on the Star Player table
26 INTENSIVE TRAINING: One of your players has been working very hard in anticipation of today's match. Pick a player on your team. He may take one extra skill to use for this match only, just as if he had rolled a New Skill result on the Star Player table
31 PALMED COIN: You automatically win the coin toss to start the game.
32 PALMED COIN: You automatically win the coin toss to start the game.
33 PALMED COIN: You automatically win the coin toss to start the game.
34 TEAM ANTHEM: Your team unveils its new fight song. Add +3 to your Fan Factor for this game only.
35 TEAM ANTHEM: Your team unveils its new fight song. Add +3 to your Fan Factor for this game only.
36 TEAM ANTHEM: Your team unveils its new fight song. Add +3 to your Fan Factor for this game only.
41 DUH, WHERE AM I?: One of your opponents has been out all night on a bender and isn't quite ready for the game.  Pick one of the opposing players. The player gets the Really Stupid characteristic for this game only.
42 DUH, WHERE AM I?: One of your opponents has been out all night on a bender and isn't quite ready for the game.  Pick one of the opposing players. The player gets the Really Stupid characteristic for this game only.
43 HEY, YOU!: You spot a talented (if crazy) fan in the stands, and he agrees to play for your team. The fan has MA6, ST4, AG3, AV7, and the Frenzy trait. The player leaves your team when the match ends. Note that you may add a 17th player to your team with this result.
44 HEY, YOU!: You spot a talented (if crazy) fan in the stands, and he agrees to play for your team. The fan has MA6, ST4, AG3, AV7, and the Frenzy trait. The player leaves your team when the match ends. Note that you may add a 17th player to your team with this result.
45 I AM THE GREATEST!: The two opposing players with the most Star Player Points refuse to be on the pitch at the same time in this match. Only one may be set up on the field at the start of each drive.
46 I AM THE GREATEST!: The two opposing players with the most Star Player Points refuse to be on the pitch at the same time in this match. Only one may be set up on the field at the start of each drive.
51 INSPIRATION: Watching the opposing team in their last match has taught one of your players a few of the finer points of Blood Bowl. You may give one MVP award to one player on your team before the match starts. If the resulting Star Player Points are enough to give the player a new skill roll, make the roll immediately.
52 INSPIRATION: Watching the opposing team in their last match has taught one of your players a few of the finer points of Blood Bowl. You may give one MVP award to one player on your team before the match starts. If the resulting Star Player Points are enough to give the player a new skill roll, make the roll immediately.
53 IT WASN'T ME!: One randomly selected player on the opposing team has been getting a little rowdy in anticipation of today's "cakewalk," and he's been arrested. He must miss the match.
54 IT WASN'T ME!: One randomly selected player on the opposing team has been getting a little rowdy in anticipation of today's "cakewalk," and he's been arrested. He must miss the match.
55 KNUCKLEDUSTERS: A player of your choice on your team counts as having Mighty Blow for this match only.
56 KNUCKLEDUSTERS: A player of your choice on your team counts as having Mighty Blow for this match only.
61 APPEARANCE FEE: The player on the opposing team with the most Star Player Points has decided that he wants extra money to take the field against "dem bums." Roll 2D6 and multiply the result by 5,000. The result is the number of gold pieces the player must receive before he will take the field. If he isn't paid, then he'll sit in the Reserves box. The player refuses to come out until either the game ends or his fee is paid. The opposing coach may choose to pay the Appearance Fee at any time. If he does, then the player may take part in the next drive normally.
62 BUZZING: One of your players has gone heavy on the coffee in anticipation of today's game. Pick a player on your team. For this match only he gains the Jump Up and Frenzy traits.
63 IN THE BAG: The opposing players are feeling cocky about their chances of winning this match. They must field the 11 worst available players on their team, as determined by Star Player Points. (In case of a tie, they must field the player with the lower cost.) This restriction ends for the rest of the match as soon as your team takes the lead.
64 IRON MAN: One player on your team is determined to play hard for the entire match no matter what the cost. Pick a player on your team. All injury rolls made against this player automatically result in Stunned for this match.
65 MORLEY'S REVENGE: You've spiked the opposing team's drinks with a powerful laxative. Roll a die and divide in half, rounding up. The result is the number of randomly selected opposing players who have drunk the spiked drink. Each player must roll a D6 before every kick-off. On a roll of 4 or more the player may be set up as normal, but on a roll of 3 or less he is otherwise engaged and must be placed in the Reserves box for this drive.
66 UNINSPIRED: The opposing team is primed for a letdown against your squad. For this match only, they must cut their Team Re-rolls in half, rounding down.

New handicap table for the MBBL2 - Season 3 (kicking in Round 4)

Code: Select all

11 THAT BABE'S GOT TALENT!: Your team visits the local tavern the night before the game. One of the exotic dancers displays her, umm, 'talents,' and your players leave her a generous tip. She bring herself and her boyfriend (who know a thing or two about Blood Bowl) and they join the team.  Your team receives 1 Cheerleader and Assistant Coach permantently for free.
12 THAT BABE'S GOT TALENT!: Your team visits the local tavern the night before the game. One of the exotic dancers displays her, umm, 'talents,' and your players leave her a generous tip. She bring herself and her boyfriend (who know a thing or two about Blood Bowl) and they join the team.  Your team receives 1 Cheerleader and Assistant Coach permantently for free.
13 SCUTT'S SCROLL OF WEATHER MAGIC: You have tricked a gullible wizard into parting with a useful scroll. You may pick the weather when the game starts.
14 SCUTT'S SCROLL OF WEATHER MAGIC: You have tricked a gullible wizard into parting with a useful scroll. You may pick the weather when the game starts.
15 BAD HABITS: The opposing team loses one Team Re-roll for this match only.
16 BAD HABITS: The opposing team loses one Team Re-roll for this match only.
21 EXTRA TRAINING: Your team has worked long and hard all week for this opponent. You may take an extra Team Re-roll to use for this match only.
22 EXTRA TRAINING: Your team has worked long and hard all week for this opponent. You may take an extra Team Re-roll to use for this match only.
23 INTENSIVE TRAINING: One of your players has been working very hard in anticipation of today's match. Pick a player on your team. He may take one extra skill to use for this match only, just as if he had rolled a New Skill result on the Star Player table.
24 INTENSIVE TRAINING: One of your players has been working very hard in anticipation of today's match. Pick a player on your team. He may take one extra skill to use for this match only, just as if he had rolled a New Skill result on the Star Player table.
25 SMELLING SALTS: You make all rolls to move a player from the Knocked Out box to the Reserves box on a roll of 2 or better for this match.
26 SMELLING SALTS: You make all rolls to move a player from the Knocked Out box to the Reserves box on a roll of 2 or better for this match.
31 TEAM ANTHEM: Add +1 to your Fan Factor permanently based on the hype generated for being the underdog for this match. 
32 TEAM ANTHEM: Add +1 to your Fan Factor permanently based on the hype generated for being the underdog for this match. 
33 MICKEY FINN: You have spiked the punch of your opponent's Apothecary, and he is unavailable this match.
34 MICKEY FINN: You have spiked the punch of your opponent's Apothecary, and he is unavailable this match.
35 NEWS FEATURE: The big cabelvision networks produce a special news feature about your team of plucky underdogs and their chances in the upcoming match. The extra revenue this generates will give you 35,000 gold at the beginning of the match and you may spend money from your treasury before the match starts.
36 NEWS FEATURE: The big cabelvision networks produce a special news feature about your team of plucky underdogs and their chances in the upcoming match. The extra revenue this generates will give you 35,000 gold at the beginning of the match and you may spend money from your treasury before the match starts.
41 DUH, WHERE AM I?: One of your opponents has been out all night on a bender and isn't quite ready for the game.  Pick one of the opposing players. The player gets the Really Stupid characteristic for this game only.
42 DUH, WHERE AM I?: One of your opponents has been out all night on a bender and isn't quite ready for the game.  Pick one of the opposing players. The player gets the Really Stupid characteristic for this game only.
43 HEY, YOU!: You spot a talented (if crazy) fan in the stands, and he agrees to play for your team. The fan has MA6, ST4, AG3, AV7, and the Frenzy trait. The player leaves your team when the match ends. Note that you may add a 17th player to your team with this result.
44 HEY, YOU!: You spot a talented (if crazy) fan in the stands, and he agrees to play for your team. The fan has MA6, ST4, AG3, AV7, and the Frenzy trait. The player leaves your team when the match ends. Note that you may add a 17th player to your team with this result.
45 I AM THE GREATEST!: The two opposing players with the most Star Player Points refuse to be on the pitch at the same time in this match. Only one may be set up on the field at the start of each drive.
46 I AM THE GREATEST!: The two opposing players with the most Star Player Points refuse to be on the pitch at the same time in this match. Only one may be set up on the field at the start of each drive.
51 INSPIRATION: Watching the opposing team in their last match has taught one of your players a few of the finer points of Blood Bowl. You may give one MVP award to one player on your team before the match starts. If the resulting Star Player Points are enough to give the player a new skill roll, make the roll immediately.
52 INSPIRATION: Watching the opposing team in their last match has taught one of your players a few of the finer points of Blood Bowl. You may give one MVP award to one player on your team before the match starts. If the resulting Star Player Points are enough to give the player a new skill roll, make the roll immediately.
53 IT WASN'T ME!: One randomly selected player on the opposing team has been getting a little rowdy in anticipation of today's "cakewalk," and he's been arrested. He must miss the match.
54 IT WASN'T ME!: One randomly selected player on the opposing team has been getting a little rowdy in anticipation of today's "cakewalk," and he's been arrested. He must miss the match.
55 ILLEGAL DRUGS: Declare this special play immediately (now!). You may choose one player in your team to have either +1 ST OR +1 AG for this match only.
56 ILLEGAL DRUGS: Declare this special play immediately (now!). You may choose one player in your team to have either +1 ST OR +1 AG for this match only.
61 APPEARANCE FEE: The player on the opposing team with the most Star Player Points has decided that he wants extra money to take the field against "dem bums." Roll 2D6 and multiply the result by 5,000. The result is the number of gold pieces the player must receive before he will take the field. If he isn't paid, then he'll sit in the Reserves box. The player refuses to come out until either the game ends or his fee is paid. The opposing coach may choose to pay the Appearance Fee at any time. If he does, then the player may take part in the next drive normally.
62 BUZZING: One of your players has gone heavy on the coffee in anticipation of today's game. Pick a player on your team. For this match only he gains the Jump Up and Frenzy traits.
63 IN THE BAG: The opposing players are feeling cocky about their chances of winning this match. They must field the 11 worst available players on their team, as determined by Star Player Points. (In case of a tie, they must field the player with the lower cost.) This restriction ends for the rest of the match as soon as your team takes the lead.
64 IRON MAN: One player on your team is determined to play hard for the entire match no matter what the cost. Pick a player on your team. All injury rolls made against this player automatically result in Stunned for this match.  Give the player the skill, Iron Man.
65 MORLEY'S REVENGE: You've spiked the opposing team's drinks with a powerful laxative. Roll a die and divide in half, rounding up. The result is the number of randomly selected opposing players who have drunk the spiked drink. Each player must roll a D6 before every kick-off. On a roll of 4 or more the player may be set up as normal, but on a roll of 3 or less he is otherwise engaged and must be placed in the Reserves box for this drive.  Give the player the OFAB trait.
66 UNINSPIRED: The opposing team is primed for a letdown against your squad. For this match only, they must cut their Team Re-rolls in half, rounding down.

Galak

Posted: **Tue Apr 15, 2003 3:50 pm**

I think part of what the guy's talking about is all the "for this match only" bit. The 2 tables you printed still have a TON of that Galak. I really don't see the harm in having some of the effects more permanent...

I also think a good fix for what the guy is saying is bringing back the bonus MVP's...gives the smaller newer teams a chance to catch up. Maybe not as many as there were if you think they aren't balanced or whatever, but I for one don't see it.

Posted: **Tue Apr 15, 2003 4:10 pm**

Personally if u cant handle a 120 team with a 100 team without more than the current handicap table, then i would have to say u probably wont ever enjoy any bloodbowl at all.

Posted: **Tue Apr 15, 2003 4:46 pm**

sean newboy wrote:Personally if u cant handle a 120 team with a 100 team without more than the current handicap table, then i would have to say u probably wont ever enjoy any bloodbowl at all.

Good point

Posted: **Tue Apr 15, 2003 4:58 pm**

That's true Masher...you really start to worry when you have teams with a 50+ difference in my experience.

Posted: **Tue Apr 15, 2003 5:09 pm**

sean newboy wrote:Personally if u cant handle a 120 team with a 100 team without more than the current handicap table, then i would have to say u probably wont ever enjoy any bloodbowl at all.

You've entirely missed the point of what I was saying. Two weeks into the league there are teams at 120, the new players are just going to be showing up over the next few weeks. So in two more weeks we're looking at new teams facing 140's or beyond. It's not at all about handling, it's about incentive to play a game you are probably going to absolutely lose. With the open format of blood bowl leagues, coaches try to maximize their schedules to face weak teams when they're down and harder teams when they're up. You can't force a coach to play this team or that, you can't even coerce him unless it's a tournament, and then you can seed teams. So what's the incentive in playing higher TR teams when you're new joining an established league? With LRB, none.

Posted: **Tue Apr 15, 2003 5:20 pm**

Yeah, I sorta see your point.

In the league I run, we have a set schedule that we play by (not the open challenge system used widely)...every two weeks we have two opponents scheduled against (which allows for schedule match-ups and chances to play or do other things). It has worked out very well for the past several years...since in this system you will play one of the other teams eventually...if they happen to be higher or lower than your TR at the time isn't really controlled. So now and then, we do have a match-up that is completely one-sided...which the current handicap table doesn't help much (we still use the card system currently and are looking towards the newer updated "Galak" tables for next season).

Posted: **Tue Apr 15, 2003 7:30 pm**

Two points;
1. I agree entirely with Weslytj, bonus SPP's are the solution. They should never have been scrapped and next season will be making a reappearance in my League.
2. I have no sympathy with new boys who whinge and whine about not playing because they are going to lose. The game is meant to be fun, win or lose. It is a specialist game for dedicated fanatics. I don't want to see fly by nights playing it. So they should go away, mature a bit and come back when they have grown up.

Point taken though, the handicap table keeps much higher TR teams way ahead. But these teams should be winning. Bonus SPP's helps younger teams catch up quicker, that's all, you still have to be prepared to lose. I also think Galaks' suggestions are better than the LRB version, but bonus SPP's must return.

Posted: **Tue Apr 15, 2003 8:03 pm**

littlemute wrote:With the open format of blood bowl leagues, coaches try to maximize their schedules to face weak teams when they're down and harder teams when they're up.

Maybe it's just because I don't play in a "real" league with a lot of coaches (I play in a weekend league with four coaches so far), but I fail to see where this is a problem. I always figured that would happen, but with the rules in the LRB, if refuse a challenge, you've lost the match 0-2. No star player points, no money, no team advancement. Not to mention, no game, and no fun. Maybe coming up with a more severe punishment for refusing a challenge is needed in your league, but I just don't see where this is a problem.

Chris

Posted: **Tue Apr 15, 2003 8:17 pm**

As I understand it, bonus SPP's were taken off the charts to keep 200 TR teams from getting cheap and easy SPP's when playing 250 TR rated teams. I don't think they really add a whole lot to the game, but I would like to see the handicap table stiffened a bit. Milo's thread on this went a long way to fixing it.

Posted: **Tue Apr 15, 2003 8:17 pm**

littlemute wrote:
sean newboy wrote:Personally if u cant handle a 120 team with a 100 team without more than the current handicap table, then i would have to say u probably wont ever enjoy any bloodbowl at all.
You've entirely missed the point of what I was saying. Two weeks into the league there are teams at 120, the new players are just going to be showing up over the next few weeks. So in two more weeks we're looking at new teams facing 140's or beyond. It's not at all about handling, it's about incentive to play a game you are probably going to absolutely lose. With the open format of blood bowl leagues, coaches try to maximize their schedules to face weak teams when they're down and harder teams when they're up. You can't force a coach to play this team or that, you can't even coerce him unless it's a tournament, and then you can seed teams. So what's the incentive in playing higher TR teams when you're new joining an established league? With LRB, none.

The reason he's "totally missed the point" is that you didn't specify that at all. We all read that you were talking about 100 TR teams vs 120 TR teams.

In a well organized league, TR 100 teams shouldn't have to play 150 TR teams. Either put them in different divisions, or let the low-TR teams play against each other to power themselves up.

As for what a new coach has to gain, i'd say everything. They'll learn 10 times more about the game by playing against the experienced coach than they would by playing against other new coaches.

Posted: **Tue Apr 15, 2003 10:12 pm**

Yeah but playing against an experienced coach who's ALSO way higher TR than you just teaches you that you're going to get beaten, alot, without much chance to redeem yourself.

Posted: **Tue Apr 15, 2003 10:24 pm**

Skummy wrote:As I understand it, bonus SPP's were taken off the charts to keep 200 TR teams from getting cheap and easy SPP's when playing 250 TR rated teams. I don't think they really add a whole lot to the game, but I would like to see the handicap table stiffened a bit. Milo's thread on this went a long way to fixing it.

well to me the difference isn't relevant. the point is that one team is smaller than the other and needs a way to catch up. that's true whether i'ts tr 140 vs 100 or 240 vs 200.

the idea is if the lower team gets bigger, then eventually you won't NEED a handicap table as often.

Posted: **Tue Apr 15, 2003 10:25 pm**

Personally i would like to see a Hired Guns system regarding star players. Mordheim, Necromunda, and Gorka Morka all used something of that nature. Have something like that replace the 5th u choose choice.

Talk Fantasy Football

The LRB handicap table just isn't going to work

The LRB handicap table just isn't going to work