Pick'N'Mix Teams

Talafar · Post by **Talafar** » Thu Apr 24, 2003 7:59 pm

I just read the article in the 2003 Bloodbowl Annual, refering to the rules for Allied teams. I realise that the rules are experimental, but do you people think that they are balanced? Also, I noticed that the Chaos Pact team cannot take Dark Elves, despite being mentioned in the Designer's notes. (perhaps they should be in place of Norse?)

Thanks

Darkson · Post by **Darkson** » Thu Apr 24, 2003 8:00 pm

IIRC Dark Elves were in the original version in the BB Mag, but were removed as unbalancing.

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Thu Apr 24, 2003 8:15 pm

Talafar wrote:I just read the article in the 2003 Bloodbowl Annual, refering to the rules for Allied teams. I realise that the rules are experimental, but do you people think that they are balanced? Also, I noticed that the Chaos Pact team cannot take Dark Elves, despite being mentioned in the Designer's notes. (perhaps they should be in place of Norse?)

Thanks

So far in testing ... we have not found the teams unbalanced at all. HOWEVER, I should note that the Chaos Pact team should only be allowed two Big Guys. Allowing them 3 was a rule for the original BB Mag that wasn't fixed in time for the Annual printing.

Galak

narkotic · Post by **narkotic** » Thu Apr 24, 2003 8:37 pm

Talafar wrote:Also, I noticed that the Chaos Pact team cannot take Dark Elves, despite being mentioned in the Designer's notes.

That suits them: "revised rules" means to delete a line in the table and copying the original text without content proof reading. Even more stupid when you consider that they like to hide vital rules within the overall fluff text.

Zombie · Post by **Zombie** » Thu Apr 24, 2003 8:48 pm

The chaos pact team should only be allowed one big guy, and no dark elves. Even then, it would still be overpowered. Of course it won't show in Galak's league because the team won't be played long enough. But after enough games, it could completely dominate.

narkotic · Post by **narkotic** » Thu Apr 24, 2003 9:09 pm

I see an obvious difference between Chaos Pact and Old world pact: they should be of the same game strength, don't they? But Chaos has just more positional players and more big guys to chose from. Too bad that they are more evil races than good ones, anyway bad game design.

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Thu Apr 24, 2003 9:37 pm

Zombie wrote:The chaos pact team should only be allowed one big guy, and no dark elves. Even then, it would still be overpowered. Of course it won't show in Galak's league because the team won't be played long enough. But after enough games, it could completely dominate.

We'll agree to disagree on the long term thing Zombie. The Chaos Pact roster really doesn't allow you to train a good back up position player, so long term if you end up needing to retire a position player you really have no fall back plan.

And agreed we haven't seen the looooonnngg term yet, only 6 games on the roster, but we've done a lot to revise the roster from the original in BB Mag with the testing already.

The Lustrian team is definitely balanced. I believe the Old World teams to be also. We'll agree to disagree.

And no one wishes more than me that the FUMBBL league would:

A) include the Handicap table into the JavaBowl program
B) include all experimental rosters from the 2003 Annual into the normal league NOT Division X.

Then arguments like Zombie's could be tested against long term information. Look I'm not blind, I do see holes in concepts ... like I said compare the original rules for the Chaos Pact team with the current rules and you'll see that testing did make a difference in the team already. However not many leagues help with testing so the few that do no matter their format are the ones that you have to use the data from.

Galak

Sixpack595 · Post by **Sixpack595** » Fri Apr 25, 2003 6:40 am

I see the Pact team as having a big advantage at first, but falling behind fairly quickly(not including big guys...that needs some work). In a tourney they are honestly broken, but in leagues they seem OK. I think the 3 new undead rosters need a lot more work than the pact teams do, at least the pact teams don't kill a existing roster.

Mestari · Post by **Mestari** » Fri Apr 25, 2003 10:27 am

By stance at the moment is:

The chaos pact (and to a lesser extent the Old World) team has a very impressive potential. Namely, it could become an ultimate team ruling the entire league - the positions do not restrict that.
But the problem lies in the fact that with the current income and aging rules this will most likely never happen. The fact that you only get one of each position makes you very prone to suffering from catastrophical injuries.

Naturally, this is just a guess, I'll have to see how our leagues pact teams fare in the longer run. Mine just got an ogre.

Post by **Thadrin** » Fri Apr 25, 2003 1:15 pm

I just got shredded by a Pact team and their Gutter Runner in RABBL. (playing "normal" Chaos). Just couldn't match their blocking - especially not with one Warrior MNGing and another BHd early.

I liked the thinking behind the pact teams, but think they've been watered down too much in making them balanced to be of interest to what I would want to do (I wanted a team of Humans and Dwarfs, with an Ogre and a couple of Halflings for flavour).

I think the Dungeonbowl model would make a far better way of doing things:
Primary race: 0-10 Linemen
Secondary race: 0-6 Linemen
Tertiary race: 0-2 Linemen
0-1 big guy.

Old world: Primary race: Human, Secondary race: Dwarfs, tertiary race: Halfling. Big Guy: Ogre

Chaos: Primary race: Norse, Secondary race: Chaos, Tertiary race: Skaven. Big Guy: Minotaur

Lustria: Primary race: Lizardmen, Secondary race: Amazon, Tertiary race: Norse. Big Guy: Kroxigor

0-2 position players, max one from secondary race. The position player counts against the race player limit (only 6 players of the secondary race TOTAL).

Skummy · Post by **Skummy** » Fri Apr 25, 2003 1:30 pm

In general, I like this, but if a lizardman lineman is a Saurus, then the Lustrian team seems to be much stronger than the regular Lizardman team. Perhaps the primary race should be Amazon, with Lizardman as the secondary and Skinks as the lineman?

Post by **Thadrin** » Fri Apr 25, 2003 1:38 pm

Skinks are the lizardman lineman. Saurus are Blockers.

Colin · Post by **Colin** » Fri Apr 25, 2003 10:05 pm

I have to admit I like Thad's idea (but not his religion).

D'Arquebus · Post by **D'Arquebus** » Thu May 01, 2003 7:16 am

I like these teams alot Thadrin. The different abilities of each form of linemen will allow the team to customise and have options on the field. The 2 position players will add some specialist puch, and finally they only get 1 Big Guy.

My biggest problem with the current versions is the access to multiple Big Guys. An advantage reserved (to this point) for the "loser" teams Halflings and Gobbos. I doubt anyone could place the Pact teams on that level so I think 1 Big Guy max is essential.

Post by **Thadrin** » Thu May 01, 2003 9:09 am

Add a team...

Creepers: Primary: Goblin, Secondary: Skaven, Tertiary: Goblins. Big Guy: Troll.
That should allow a roster per the old Underworld Creepers team fluff

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