Talk Fantasy Football

The following is designed to replace the current Starplayer System. All 3rd Edition Starplayers that can be found on page 55 of LRB 2.0 would be retired to the Blood Bowl Hall of Fame and completely unavailiable to future Blood Bowl Teams. Please, don't jump on me before you actually have read all of the topic. I have put some real effort into this, and I truly belive this might be the crossover between allowing permanent Starplayers (just like in the good old days!), and completely banning those overpowered bastards!

There are 25 "Special Characters" in Blood Bowl, including the Kroxigor.
http://www.games-workshop.com/Warhammer ... layers.pdf

Monsters -> Monsters are to be covered by the current "Big Guy" rules.
Barbarian, Deathroller, Kroxigor, Man Ogre, Minotaur, Ogre, Rat Ogre, Treeman, Troll, Vampire

Weapons -> Weapons are to be covered by the upcoming "Secret Weapon" rules.
Ball & Chain, Blunderbuss, Bomb, Chainsaw, Pogo Stick, Poison Dagger

Champions -> Champions are what this topic is about, please give it a honest try.
Chaos Dwarf Bull Centaur, Chaos Warrior, Dwarf Troll Slayer, High Elf Dragon Warrior, Human Catcher, Orc Blitzer, Saurus Temple Guard, Skaven Gutter Runner, Wood Elf Wardancer

In order for the "Champion Rules" to work, the Team Lists have to be reorganised... The Player Position Limits are now recorded in a seperate line. High Elf Teams for example are allowed to hire up to 2 Dragon Warriors. This becomes necessary because there are now two different types of Dragon Warriors availiable to High Elf Teams. The "Champion" High Elf Dragon Warrior is already a seasoned "Veteran" who gained +1 ST and Dauntless! To reach the "Veteran" Level he already has collected 16 Starplayer Points and was awarded 2 Starplayer Rolls in his career so far!

All of the "Champions" are based on "Rookies" availiable from their Team Lists. However some minor changes had to be made in order to fit the old 3rd Edition Starplayers into the up to date LRB 2.0 ruleset. This Champion is based on the 3rd Edition Starplayer "Griff Oberwald".
His Position had to be changed from Blitzer to Catcher, because he is able to acces Agility Skills & Traits. A Magic Helmet that upgraded his armour had to be removed because Magic Items are no longer availiable. During his career Griff Oberwald was awarded 7 Star Player Rolls, gained +2 ST, +1 AV, Block, Leap, Sprint & Sure Feet and became a Legend.

To balance this awfully powerful Champion, the 2 most unlikely Starplayer Roll Results were removed. The Champion now availiable to Human Teams is a Super Star Catcher who collected 76 Starplayer Points and was awarded 5 Starplayer Rolls already!

-> Creating a Blood Bowl Team
Champions do not like to play for Rookie Teams. Their cost is doubled when they are hired for a newly created team.

-> Blood Bowl Team Roster
Champions already have collected the minimum number of Starplayer Points required for their Title.


Now, I'm sure you will have a lot of questions. In terms of balance, all is open to discussion. This "Champions System" adds a new concept, basically trading money for Starplayer Points. There are of course pro's and con's. I do not aim at a scenario where "Champions" are a requirement for a team to be competitive. In fact on the long run, developing "Rookies" should be superior in most situations as coaches have complete control over their skill & trait choices. However, a coach that has to replace a key player in a competitive situation will apreciate the options given by the introduction of Champions. A major flaw of 3rd Edition Starplayers was that some of them were way better than others. This is adressed by the fact that Champions do develop and become unique. They do this slower than Rookie players, but they do. Some Races might be able to develop a Team based on Skills & Traits that are hard, but not impossible to acces for them. I consider this a gain of depth to the long term strategy aspect of the game. Sure, this helps to compensate some teams weaknesses, but while it helps, it is still not reversing strength and weaknesses.

For example, I would love to start an High Elf Team and reach to get 2 of those Veteran ST4 & Dauntless Dragon Warriors. A High Elf Team with two ST4 Characters might be able to put up more of a fight against Strength Teams - but will i desperately miss the first 2 Skills i gave up? Can I ever afford 280K to base my strategy on?

I hope to get some cool feedback from you, please keep an open mind. I will try to do the same.

Toby

How are you working out the costs of the "veterans"? Unless I'm going blind there's no costing formula there.

Maybe somebody should tell him that the freebooting system works?

Uhmmmmm. With all your house rules and new ideas Toby.. Are you even playing blood bowl anymore, or some sort of "Bastard son of WHFB" ?

Unless I'm being dozy and missed it, there's no reference to how these champions gain spp. Are they considered to have peaked? Do they gain rolls as any other player? Or (how I would play it) does the veteran say not get a roll till 31 spp as he counts as already having had his first two?

From his example above I say they count as having as many SPP's as they need to take the rolls they've had, ie. if they've had 2 rolls they count as having 16 spp's.

But what about the costs?

this is complicated, me no likes complicated games wait...d'oh !

How is the cost of Champions determined?

The Cost of each Champion is determined once during the design & balancing process. The cost is then recorded on the Champions respective team list and is not altered by the player's advance to higher levels. The "Cost Formula" is Rookie Cost + 20K per "Characteristics Increase" +20K per "Trait", +20K per "any Skill", +10K per "Skill". This gives a starting point. It turned out that the cost determined that way is almost identical with the cost recorded on the "Starplayer Cards".

How do Champions collect Starplayer Points?

Champions are in no way different to rookie players, except they already start with a number of Starplayer Points equal to their "Title". Starplayer Poins are collected by "Completing Passes", "Scoring Touchdowns", "Intercepting Passes", "Inflicting Casualties" and "MVP Awards".

How many Starplayer Points do Champions already have collected when they are hired?

You can find that information in the "Star Player Points Table" on page 40 of the Living Rule Book 2.0

Will this be complicated to play?

No, absolutely not. When you want to hire a Champion for your team, make sure that you have a position slot availiable for him on your Team Roster. If you have enough treasury to afford the new player, record him on your Team Roster using the data from your Team List. Since the new guy is a Champion, look up his "Title" (page 40 LRB 2.0) and record the minimum number of Starplayer Points required for his level as well.



I hope this helps to clear up some of your issues. Note that hiring a Champion also has an huge impact on a Team's Rating.
I'm really looking forward to get some more feedback, thank you all so far!

Toby, you have too much time on your hands...

-Balrog

I would rather just have a veteran status player available to all teams.
For every 20k u get to place an advance on a rookie player. Spp's = approriate number of advances.

i would rather you actually EARNED your skills...is that so hard to do?

and i would like to see a 5 or more advance player someday thats not a star player. So far only monty haul leagues have them in the lrb ruleset.

(Apologies to Sean for posting a similar idea to his- missed your post on first reading through the thread.)

Why not just say "You may buy an experienced player for your team. For each SPP roll you want your new player to have add 30k to his base cost. eg a Dwarf Longbeard with two skills would coost 130k. The skill rolls are made on purchase. The new player begins with teh number of SPPs it would have cost him to reach the number of SPP rolls made."
(Note: 30k IS expensive for this. So it should be, because these players will have a fairly major advantage over others.)

Shorter, simpler, allows something like what you want...otherwise it all seems very complicated and would require a complete overhaul of all the rosters.

Dunno whether it would be especially balanced, seeing as it is no more than an idea off the top of my deciedly addled head, but its better than allowing starting ST4/Block players as your system currently does.

Sean: We have had 4 players in our league reach the 5 skill plateau, and one player managed to get to the 6 skill level before he died. The 6 skill player never gained a niggle, either.

Speaking of niggles, how does aging come into play for these Champions?