Ogres and Rollers

Post by **Thadrin** » Mon May 05, 2003 6:06 pm

Yes another thread on this subject, but I just wanted to see if I could get an idea if the idea I had that would see me being happy with the Dwarfs losing all Big Guy access would get support.

Its a nice simple idea, though based on a couple of assumptions.
Specifically:
1) The secret weapon rules from BBMag will be made official to all intents and purposes unchanged, bar access questions.
2) Ogres will also disappear from the Orc, Goblin, Halfling and Norse team lists, preferably with Treemen also being removed from the Wood Elf roster.

Here goes:
The Deathroller can never be confiscated. Its simply too damned big.
(cue a nice little did you know in the rules about an Ogre ref trying to confiscate one and getting squished doing so.)
It remains permanently on the team roster (peaked), though each time it breaks/gets smashed the player must pay for repairs: D6x10k, can be paid off in installments. Adjust the price accordingly (about 80k would seem right).
EDIT (again) - on a 6 on the cost roll the Deathroller is beyond repair and a new one must be bought.

Maybe even add this idea:
Upgrading the roller.
The Dwarf team may pay a mechanic 30k after any game to attempt to enhance their Deathroller. roll D6. On a 1 the Mechanic has Botched it! - make an AGING roll for the Roller. On 2+ you may make a skill roll for the Roller.

Aye eller Nay?

StillGas · Post by **StillGas** » Mon May 05, 2003 6:34 pm

I like the idea on principle, though I'm not sure about the upgrading. Dwarves tend to have to spend less cash replacing dead guys so I'm not sure I'd like to see them using it to get a tanked up (all that bugman's

) death roller for 90k extra

lawquoter · Post by **lawquoter** » Mon May 05, 2003 6:35 pm

I'm all for using the deathroller, and I'd like the one I have to be put into the team. So, I guess "aye." Fits the fluff, removes the Ogre, and makes for a nice risk/reward system in which you could get nice accessions on your custom roller, unless you go to the crap mechanic that botches the job so you'll have to come in for repairs.

nice work.

BlanchPrez · Post by **BlanchPrez** » Mon May 05, 2003 6:52 pm

I like the idea basicly, but I think a few things need to be adjusted.

First, if you're going to make it a perminant part of the team, then the cost as a secret weapon needs to go up. Being the only secret weapon that can never be confiscated is pretty good in my eyes, so that should be balanced out by a cost. If I remember correctly, it currently costs 40K, so maybe raising it to 60K (or even 80K).

Second, if you're going to make the repair cost payable in installments, then you should make it so that the roller is not usable until the cost is paid in full.

Third, I'm not sure I like the idea of upgrading the roller... it's pretty nice as it is.

That's my two cents worth.

Chris

Post by **Thadrin** » Mon May 05, 2003 7:06 pm

BlanchPrez wrote:I like the idea basicly, but I think a few things need to be adjusted.

First, if you're going to make it a perminant part of the team, then the cost as a secret weapon needs to go up. Being the only secret weapon that can never be confiscated is pretty good in my eyes, so that should be balanced out by a cost. If I remember correctly, it currently costs 40K, so maybe raising it to 60K (or even 80K).

Just like I suggested it should you mean?

BlanchPrez wrote: Second, if you're going to make the repair cost payable in installments, then you should make it so that the roller is not usable until the cost is paid in full.

Absolutely. That's the idea.

BlanchPrez wrote: Third, I'm not sure I like the idea of upgrading the roller... it's pretty nice as it is.

It's to replace development. You can develop your ogres, you can develop your trolls, why not have a flashy Roller? Gaining SPP seemed wrong, but soupoing that bad boy up...now THAT seems like fun!
My guess is that teams who can afford a roller - and all the repairs it will need - will not be in a position where money is something they have huge amounts of. I wish I knew why people had the idea that Dwarfs are invulnerable...they DO die people!

BlanchPrez · Post by **BlanchPrez** » Mon May 05, 2003 8:12 pm

Thadrin wrote:
BlanchPrez wrote:First, if you're going to make it a perminant part of the team, then the cost as a secret weapon needs to go up. Being the only secret weapon that can never be confiscated is pretty good in my eyes, so that should be balanced out by a cost. If I remember correctly, it currently costs 40K, so maybe raising it to 60K (or even 80K).
Just like I suggested it should you mean?

You did say that, my bad, I didn't notice it the first time.

Thadrin wrote:
BlanchPrez wrote: Second, if you're going to make the repair cost payable in installments, then you should make it so that the roller is not usable until the cost is paid in full.
Absolutely. That's the idea.

Cool, I'm all for that.

Thadrin wrote:
BlanchPrez wrote: Third, I'm not sure I like the idea of upgrading the roller... it's pretty nice as it is.
It's to replace development. You can develop your ogres, you can develop your trolls, why not have a flashy Roller? Gaining SPP seemed wrong, but soupoing that bad boy up...now THAT seems like fun!
My guess is that teams who can afford a roller - and all the repairs it will need - will not be in a position where money is something they have huge amounts of. I wish I knew why people had the idea that Dwarfs are invulnerable...they DO die people!

Let me first say, as a Dwarf coach, I am more than aware that dwarfs die.

Okay, I guess my only thing I have to say about upgrading the Deathroller is what kinds of skills would be made available for it? I'd have to see it in action to see how well I like it. So, I'll reserve judgement on this.

Chris

honeycomb kid · Post by **honeycomb kid** » Mon May 05, 2003 8:47 pm

Sounds good. I play dwarves and never got the Deathroller because it stunk. I would foul, crack armour and somehow stun the guy (even though he just got crushed by a spiky steamroller) and get kicked out by the ref, or just get knocked over by a block or some guy with dauntless. Let's get the evil machination back on the pitch.

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Mon May 05, 2003 9:42 pm

You guys are REALLY missing the benefit from the 40k SW Deathroller that can be confiscated.

Got a ST 2 Longbeard that took a nasty hit 2 games ago, but you don't have the funds to really replace him yet..... let him drive the Roller.

Doing the straight math. A Deathroller purchased for 40k should last about 3 to 4 games before being confiscated. That's plenty of time to build up reserves to be in a better place to retire your worst LongBeard.

I truely think simple is best on this one. 2 of the 3 Dwarf teams have purchased 40k Deathrollers for Season 3 of the MBBL already. So I'll let you know how they work out and how many games they last.

Galak

sean newboy · Post by **sean newboy** » Mon May 05, 2003 9:46 pm

I would only allow the upgrades on a 6.

BlanchPrez · Post by **BlanchPrez** » Mon May 05, 2003 9:48 pm

I'd love to try one out, but I can't convince my league to use the secret weapons rules, so I'd have to do it as a freebooted star player. Not willing to spend that much money for a one game use roller.

Chris

Dark Lord (retired) · Post by **Dark Lord (retired)** » Mon May 05, 2003 9:53 pm

Math isn't everything Galak.

[nasty look at wood elves]
Some of us just want to have fun playing dwarves with the same stuff every other tem gets.

[/nasty look at wood elves]

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Tue May 06, 2003 1:17 am

Dark Lord wrote:Math isn't everything Galak.

My post wasn't about math, DL.

My post was about the fact that the Deathroller as a 40k weapon under the current rules would allow you to make sure of a crap player.

In my opinion ... that is a good thing,

Galak

Dark Lord (retired) · Post by **Dark Lord (retired)** » Tue May 06, 2003 1:29 am

But the dwarf big guy is still peaked and therefore boring and ineffective.

The orcs and wood elves still get a 'fluff immune' and unneeded big guy.

It still doesn't replace the big guy 100%. The dwarf team has chainsaws they can't start, blunderbuss that they don't have the MA or AG to use effectively for anything other than a punt, and the deathroller that isn't even exclsive to them anymore, only plays for one half (which is a real bitch considering the treeman upgrade), and can be taken out of the game by just about any worthless lineman.

It's not a fun replacement. It's a downgrade to a team that data you support shows has one of the worst win% in the game.

sean newboy · Post by **sean newboy** » Tue May 06, 2003 1:32 am

The dwarf team has chainsaws they can't start, blunderbuss that they don't have the MA or AG to use effectively for anything other than a punt

This happens from time to time. For instance i currently run a team in a league using the kicking skills, that has been given an ag 2 player with the kick skill. Why anyone thot i would use a reroll to get the ball to this guy is beyond me. However none of it has to do with either the deathroller or the Ogre.

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Tue May 06, 2003 1:55 am

sean newboy wrote:This happens from time to time. For instance i currently run a team in a league using the kicking skills, that has been given an ag 2 player with the kick skill. Why anyone thot i would use a reroll to get the ball to this guy is beyond me. However none of it has to do with either the deathroller or the Ogre.

HEY ... we don't use the kicking rules anymore remember. The Zombie Kicker is just a player with Kick .... no more kicking the ball okay.

And DL ... what the heck are you talking about with the Deathroller not being exclusive???

Only the Dwarf team can take it as a Secret Weapon for 40k. If an Old World team wants it currently in the MBBL they need to pay 80k and freeboot it for one game as a Star.

Oh and please note that I've openly said I have no problem with Orc teams losing the Ogre, and the Wood Elf teams in the MBBL don't even have Treemen.

Galak