Non WFB fluff Woodies

Colin · Post by **Colin** » Fri May 09, 2003 4:15 pm

I noticed there were alot of post that stated that WEs don't need the treeman, he's just there for the fluff (I don't disagree with this). I think the only problem people have with treemen on the woodies, is that they are already quite good, the reason I would point to is the wardancers. There starting skills are way too good compared to other elf teams. The low AV is already compensated by the high MA, so I think that the wardancers (which are the woodie's blitzers) might need to be rethought. Why do they have to be like the WFB woodies since the WFB fluff isn't supposed to affect the BB fluff anymore. Just have WE blitzers with the same stats but only with block and dodge (they would then be a little less expensive and not as good as the WDs, but could be made into something similar with a skill upgrade). That may be enough to make it ok to have a treeman on the team, whether or not the strength of the team is reduced enough to allow up to 4 WE blitzers or whether 2 is good enough is up for debate.

BTW, I think since most/all teams are supposed to be redone in the future (as far as minis go), I think they should drop the WFB labels and return to the correct names for the position players, ie blitzers (not wardancers), catchers (not gutter runners), etc.

honeycomb kid · Post by **honeycomb kid** » Fri May 09, 2003 4:53 pm

I am one of the few people (I think) that actually likes the WHFB fluff names. I just hat that my dwarf "runner" is retardedly slow and picks passing skills and my "blitzer" can't hit as well as my longbeards. Also, what are you going to call slayers? blockers?

Colin · Post by **Colin** » Fri May 09, 2003 5:04 pm

Well the topic is supposed to be about WEs, but anyway, I don't see why a dwarf runner can't be called a thrower since he gets passing skills. IMO, all teams should have aceess to throwers, catchers, etc., it's just that some races would just suck at certain positions. Yeah, call the slayer a blocker, why not, just don't need the stats to follow the WFB fluff. I would rather see the team redone in a more BBish style with football helmets et al., and not have "slayers" per se. If you wanted a slayer like player, just develope him into one by giving him frenzy, etc. on his skill upgrades. I don't think we need any player to start with frenzy (the only ones who do only have it to follow WFB fluff), make it a skill again instead of a trait (it's not as powerful as it used to be in 3ed).

Balrog · Post by **Balrog** » Fri May 09, 2003 5:07 pm

I like the WFB names for positions, it adds some diversity. And although the Treeman is on the WE team for fluff reasons I don't think that he makes the team significantly better, so why not just leave him there?

-Balrog

Skummy · Post by **Skummy** » Fri May 09, 2003 5:16 pm

The warhammer positions are difficult to strip off at this point. Trollslayers and Witch Elves don't really fit into general team slots, and there are already quite good blitzers on their teams.

sean newboy · Post by **sean newboy** » Fri May 09, 2003 5:25 pm

The warhammer positions are difficult to strip off at this point. Trollslayers and Witch Elves don't really fit into general team slots, and there are already quite good blitzers on their teams.

I still say that would be solved by coming out with a new title for all frenzied players (including norse blitzers).

Colin · Post by **Colin** » Fri May 09, 2003 5:26 pm

Why have witch elves as a position, why not have DE catchers and have them look like witch elves? I guess what I am saying is I like the 2ed way they did the teams and the rosters didn't look all the same, there was enough diversity without having to import ideas from WFB.

wesleytj · Post by **wesleytj** » Fri May 09, 2003 6:25 pm

Torg wrote:Why have witch elves as a position, why not have DE catchers and have them look like witch elves? I guess what I am saying is I like the 2ed way they did the teams and the rosters didn't look all the same, there was enough diversity without having to import ideas from WFB.

there's already precious little difference between high and dark elves as it is. mainly that is witch elves vs catchers. if you take the witch elves from dark elves, and give them catchers instead, all you have is evil high elves with expensive throwers. what fun is that?

leave the original teams (and their player names) alone. they're balanced, they're fine.

Skummy · Post by **Skummy** » Fri May 09, 2003 6:27 pm

Sean: I like that solution. How about calling them Berzerkers?

Colin · Post by **Colin** » Fri May 09, 2003 6:35 pm

OK, back to my original idea.

Take the WE wardancers, call them blitzers (they don't need to follow the WFB fluff) and drop the leap, thus making less powerfull starting out. THe question is would that be enough to have a treeman on the team for more than just fluff reasons (ie, they would need the added muscle). Also would this WE blitzer position stay at 0-2 or could it be bumped up to 0-4?

wesleytj · Post by **wesleytj** » Fri May 09, 2003 6:38 pm

no you can't take my wardancers. they are my favorite position! why does everything have to be weakened in lrb bb? leave the teams alone...they're balanced!!

Balrog · Post by **Balrog** » Fri May 09, 2003 6:41 pm

No no no!!!
In every game there is one piece, one unit, or one player which is the best. At the moment that is the Wardancer, and it should stay that way, I see no reason to make Wardancers worse.

-Balrog

Colin · Post by **Colin** » Fri May 09, 2003 6:44 pm

The teams are generally balanced now, but that doesn't mean that changing them will unbalance them, they can be changed to be a bit different but still balanced. To me the wardancer is just gross. He starts with too many good skills, he should only start with block and maybe dodge (he is the WE blitzer position), the only reason he was given leap was to make him fit with the WFB fluff. All the current rosters with the exception of the DE, HE and Undead (who got some positions bumped up to 4) are the same as in 3ed. It wouldn't hurt, IMO, to have each team looked at and tweaked a bit to fit better into the current rules and direction that Fanatic is going (ie, no more WFB fluff in BB).

Skummy · Post by **Skummy** » Fri May 09, 2003 6:48 pm

If Undead were going to be around any longer, I'd be lobbying for the reduction of Wights back to 0-2. 0-4 has made their roster very powerful.

wesleytj · Post by **wesleytj** » Fri May 09, 2003 6:53 pm

Torg wrote:The teams are generally balanced now, but that doesn't mean that changing them will unbalance them, they can be changed to be a bit different but still balanced. To me the wardancer is just gross. He starts with too many good skills, he should only start with block and maybe dodge (he is the WE blitzer position), the only reason he was given leap was to make him fit with the WFB fluff. All the current rosters with the exception of the DE, HE and Undead (who got some positions bumped up to 4) are the same as in 3ed. It wouldn't hurt, IMO, to have each team looked at and tweaked a bit to fit better into the current rules and direction that Fanatic is going (ie, no more WFB fluff in BB).

Sure, Wardancers are among the best players in the game. but they aren't unbeatable. it doesn't even take that much creativity. it takes tackle and mighty blow. or it doesn't even take that...just wait till they try to do too much and fail a leap or whatever, and then foul the piss out of them.

Yes they're good. No, they're not broken.

And I don't see going totally away from WH as a good thing. Sure do the figs however you want. But what GW doesn't seem to realize, and tbh this shocks me coming from them (the uber-biz game corp) is that BB is a "gateway game" for warhammer, which is of course their big cash cow franchise game. (well that and 40k). They should play that up. It's certainly why I have a HUGE dark elf fantasy army. (Hmm....no 40k army, wonder why?)

You look at warhammer, and it just seems like way too much. Too much money, too much work, too much time painting, and you say "no way, not me, I could never do that". Then you do a BB team. You find you can paint up a BB team over the course of a week, a few hours a day, and it's actually fun and relaxing, and you can show your figs and so on (especially after you've practiced on a few).

Then you think, well, a warhammer regiment isn't much more than a bb team really...I could do that...and then you're sunk.

And having some correlation between the armies and the bb teams can only help that. One of the first regiments I did when I started warhammer was witch elves because they were so cool in bb (yes I know plus they're chix!)

Anyway, even if you don't care about all that stuff, there's the old notion "if it ain't broke..." the last thing we really need to do is muck around with the original rosters. If you really are anti-WH, call your wardancers blitzers or whatever the hell you want. But you don't really need to change their stats or skills...you said yourself they're balanced.