Talk Fantasy Football

A member of my league and I decided to playtest the Ogre roster #1 from http://www.midgardbb.com/GWTeams/RevisedGWRosters.html against a Chaos team. We agreed to play 3 games with each, and then change rosters and playtest again. Rinse and repeat until we thought we had a good handle on how the Ogre #1 team plays.

Rosters:

Blood Worms - 6 Ogres, 5 Goblins, 0 rerolls, 8 Fan Factor

(Highly restricted on rerolls becasue of the 5 goblin limit and the need to field 11 players.)

The Khorny Goatboys - 1 Chaos Warrior, 10 Beastman, 3 rerolls, 9 Fan Factor

(Team designed for long term growth.)

Game 1 started with Sweltering Heat and a Chaos Blitz. The Goatboys worked furiously to move one of the ogres off the line and were able to get a beastman under the ball. After a good deal of fumbling, Chaos is eventually able to score on turn 3, aided by 1/2 of the Ogres failing their bonehead roll in the previous turn. A goblin attempts a long pass to tie the game, but a beastmen intercepts and scores in turn 8 of the first half. The second half features many failed GFI's, pickups and blocks. Chaos wins 3-0, one beastman is armor gimped and a goblin is missing the next game. Both teams make just enough for an apothecary and one beastman gains block.

Game 2 features both teams a man short, and Chaos recieves the ball. The Chaos Warrior fails the first block of the game, and the Ogres live up to their potential for the first 2 turns. The tide turns as 2 goblins are badly hurt when attempting to block beastmen. Chaos takes the rest of the goblins off the pitch, and Ogres and Beastmen compete to pick up the ball in tackle zones without rerolls. The Beastmen eventually prevail, and score in turn 7. One Beastman is seriously injured and gains a niggle. One Ogre gains Leader, and a beastman gains Sure Hands. The Ogres gain 80k and Chaos gains 60k. Both teams hold onto the money.

Game 3 is the first time the Ogre team's special rule kicks in. The Ogres make 10k less because of the team rating inflation and Chaos gets a handicap (Grudge Match). The actual game begins with a 3 turn riot. Half of the Chaos team commits itself to push the Leader Ogre into the crowd (badly hurt). The Ogre team responds by knocking the ball loose from the Chaos ballcarrier and threatening their 1st score. However, The pickup is failed and Chaos manages to clear the ball downfield. 2nd half features the Ogres once again losing because of failed boneheads, and Chaos again clears goblins from the pitch. Ogres gain 40k and hold their 120k for a reroll. Chaos gains 90k and buys an Ogre, leaving 30k in the bank. A second Ogre gains a skill, a Beastman gains block and the Chaos Warrior gains Claw.

Impressions:
-The Ogre roster is highly restrictive in creation. Because of pricing, coaches are forced to choose between an 8 Fan factor and no rerolls, or a 1 fan factor and 1 reroll. Becasue of the money penalty later in the game, our roster went with the 8 fan factor.
-Ogres are extremely difficult to coach. One failed roll generally means a turnover. One boneheaded player on the front line means a big hole for the opposition.
-More playtesting is needed. The Ogre restrictions have not yet come fully into play, and the Ogres will play a very different game with some experienced Ogres and 2 or more rerolls.

Basically it sounds like they wasted their time making a roster for the team. Good job, thanks.

Still, it'll p*ss off the halfling coaches -

"Under the new rules, my head coach master chef steals one of your re-rolls."
"No he doesn't!"
"yes, he does, look, it's says here!"
"NO, he doesn't!"
"Why not?"
"Cos I can't frickin' afford any "

I don't think anyone is saying that ogres are overpowered at startup. It's after about 12 to 20 games that things should get pretty ugly. When the team can manage to max out on ogres, and have 3 team rerolls, i don't see anyone being able to stand in their way.

Not sure if this team will ever have the money to get max ogres and 3 rr, with the TR handicap

You're missing the fact that by that time their TR will be high enough that they'll NEVER MAKE ANY MONEY, Zombie.

With that "Adding the amount over 100" thing, their TR will always be high enough that when they're trying to afford new Gobbos and the occasional Ogre, there won't be room for rerolls in the budget.

Or, they'll get rerolls and won't be able to afford players then. That's about the long and short of it. Rerolls or players, your choice.

Guess it's like the team creation. Do you want FF, or a reroll. That's the only decision you can make.

I don't care if it takes 50 games, but it will happen eventually, you can count on it. Especially since ogres aren't expected to die very fast.

They'll never have -7 on the money roll to counter for a 6 rolled and +1 for winning, so the money will keep coming in, even if not every game.

So what does a Chaos team look like after 50 games?
Or a Wood Elf team?


After 50 games any team is nightmare.

Those teams would have many skills to be sure, and so would the ogre team. But the ogre team would field a starting 11 that has an average player cost of 120k, and an average ST of 5. That's sickening.

To avoid teams becoming too powerful in the long term, a basic rule is that no roster should be worth more than a complete wood elf roster (the most expensive one of the 15 official teams).

The ogre team breaks this rule by such an extent, it's not even funny.

Zombie wrote:They'll never have -7 on the money roll to counter for a 6 rolled and +1 for winning, so the money will keep coming in, even if not every game.

And goblins never need replacing.

I'm afraid that the team rating increase is a more serious handicap than Zombie thinks. They're going to have to replace those goblins quite frequently, and an ogre every now and then. They're lucky if they can get near the full squad.

But of course, I might be wrong. But I'm pretty certain that the team will never get that far.

Maxed out roster has
11*12+5*4=132+20=152 points of TR from players, which translates to 204 points when calculating handicap and you'll have to add 28 points for every TRR they got, 2 points for every point of FF, 10points for apothecary.
Assuming 3RR,10FF and an apoth, you get a TR of 318. Plus 1 point for every 2.5 SPP points.
(when calculating handicap or income rolls).

Yet I must say that the basic team design is overpowered. And the fix to fix this (the TR calculation thing) does fix that but makes the team unable to keep upå the money flow to replace players.

The Ogre #2 team is a lot better one.

ianwilliams wrote:

Zombie wrote:They'll never have -7 on the money roll to counter for a 6 rolled and +1 for winning, so the money will keep coming in, even if not every game.

And goblins never need replacing.

Mestari wrote:I'm afraid that the team rating increase is a more serious handicap than Zombie thinks. They're going to have to replace those goblins quite frequently, and an ogre every now and then. They're lucky if they can get near the full squad.

Who needs goblins when you can have a roster consisting of 11 ogres? Just let them die and be done with it.

Mestari wrote:11*12+5*4=132+20=152 points of TR from players, which translates to 204 points when calculating handicap

Where does that +20 come from?

Mestari wrote:and you'll have to add 28 points for every TRR they got

No, only 14. Once the reroll is bought, it's only worth 70k (which incidentally decreases your TR, so if you're that worried about that, start with the RRs to keep your TR low). That's 14 points to your FF, not 28.

Mestari wrote:Assuming 3RR,10FF and an apoth, you get a TR of 318. Plus 1 point for every 2.5 SPP points.

Without the gobbos (you don't need them), your +20 which i have no idea where you got from, and calculating RRs as being worth 14 TR each (that's what they're worth), i get 236 TR. You're still getting money at that point, so you can start rebuying your goblins if you feel like it.

Mestari wrote:The Ogre #2 team is a lot better one.

I agree with that, but it doesn't change the fact that the #1 ogre team is VERY overpowered too.

I hear all these complaints being based on an absurd number of games played. If there are leagues where teams regularly play fifty games without retiring, then that league is going to have problems beyond whatever an Ogre team can put together.

The system isn't even designed to work for fifty games. To worry about that extreme of a long term is absurd!

First, i didn't say (and don't think) it would take 50 games to get there. I think you can easily get there in something like 20 games. What i said was "even if it takes 50 games", which is very different.

Second, the LRB was designed with one main goal in mind: to make teams playable and balanced for however many games you play. If a wood elf team after 50 games can't compete with an ogre team after 50 games, then the goal was not achieved, and i'm saying that the problem lies not with the LRB, but with the ogre team itself.

Third, i could name a couple leagues that went above 50 games. The OLBBL is the first one that comes to mind. I believe that some teams in FUMBL have passed that point as well.

cervidal there are a few teams on fumbbl who have played more than 50 games and i would say the rules work rather well for them

you can't ignore it cause you don't know anyone who has't played that long