Looks like its all ready decided

McDeth · Post by **McDeth** » Mon Jul 14, 2003 8:24 am

Just had a reply from jervis re save the undead. In short he said

That the next BllodBowl mag they will be publishing Undead team designers notes article . The article explains in detail how and why the changes were made to the Undead teams in BB, and should allow
coaches to understand why (mainly for reasons related to the Blood Bowl game
background) they felt the changes need to be made.

In addition It was pointed out that there is no reason at all why leagues that like the old roster
shouldn't keep on using it - but that Jervis certainly won't.

narkotic · Post by **narkotic** » Mon Jul 14, 2003 8:44 am

who knows, maybe there will be an outcry of the mainstream BB-Player ("the silent majority") when the plans to drop the original undead roster is published for the public?

dwarfcoach · Post by **dwarfcoach** » Mon Jul 14, 2003 8:44 am

I thought so.

To be honest the necro team is not all that different from the current undead team, flesh golems have strength 4 instead of st 5 mummies and no one is quite sure what they are trying to do with werewolves but I think they're trying to make a catcher.....

Anyway, I suppose I have a better chance against Lizardmen or Amazons....

Indigo · Post by **Indigo** » Mon Jul 14, 2003 9:46 am

I think Undead will still be elgibile for tournaments for at least a year, and since this is the only place official teams will be enforced then I wouldn't worry. You'll be free to use the old mummy roster as much as you want in your own leagues, and having more balanced teams can't be anything but good.

give them some credit, at least they're trying to improve BB!! We've not had support like this since 3rd ed was originally released...

McDeth · Post by **McDeth** » Mon Jul 14, 2003 9:50 am

I've no issue with improvements, but does this mean Orcs are next with their 14 positional + 1 Big Guy teams.

Mestari · Post by **Mestari** » Mon Jul 14, 2003 9:56 am

I don't mind having four elf teams. I wouldn't mind having four undead teams either. I just hope there is a good reason for removing the old undead as it eludes me at the moment

Indigo · Post by **Indigo** » Mon Jul 14, 2003 10:22 am

IMO of all the "old" teams the Undead were the most unbalanced, especially in league play. I could consistently beat any other team in a league situation, but the Undead were always too tough. Fair enough, they have their weaknesses, but I always thought that in a game between 2 coaches of equal skill they would win more than they lose. I'm happy to see them go, and although I'm not happy with the Necromantic team, at least there is an option to tweak the new team.

I think many people are outraged more because they assume it's a marketing ploy, or because they are familiar with them, or because it's simply a change and they don't like change. But I like it, even if the main reason was more money for GW. At the end of the day we're losing an old unbalanced team, and getting three new,moer balanced teams with better minis. Remember we're in this for the hobby and anything that expands it is a GOOD thing. If we REALLY hated GW's money grabbing plans we'd quit, so don't use that as an excuse...

Toby · Post by **Toby** » Mon Jul 14, 2003 12:22 pm

I would rather see them CHANGE imbalanced or boring Teams like Undead (imba) and High Elf (boring) than to introduce more and more and more.

Necromantic. Nurgle's Rotters. come on!

Undead. Thats something that has some grip. Undead, YEAH.

Nurgle's Rotters... call me oldschool.

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Mon Jul 14, 2003 1:22 pm

Toby wrote:Nurgle's Rotters... call me oldschool.

Not sure I understood this one Toby ... the Rotters are one of the oldest teams in Blood Bowl. Rules for the Nurgle's Rotters where in the 1st edition of Blood Bowl.

And McDeth ... I understand what you are saying with JJ reply, but that's no reason not to keep banging the drum. He said 4th edition was fine also and look what public outcrying did on that note.

Galak

McDeth · Post by **McDeth** » Mon Jul 14, 2003 1:58 pm

I'm banging the drum so much at the mo, my ears are bleeding

Toby · Post by **Toby** » Mon Jul 14, 2003 3:06 pm

Blood Bowl is "The Game of Fantasy Football"

Nurgles Rotters is not FANTASY. Nor is "Khemri".
Dwarfs, Elves, Orcs and Undead are FANTASY.

Thats my point. Trash the Warhammer Fluff and rely on basic "common sense" established Role Playing / Middle Ages Sword & Sorcery Fantasy background.

Indigo · Post by **Indigo** » Mon Jul 14, 2003 3:16 pm

Toby wrote:Blood Bowl is "The Game of Fantasy Football"

Nurgles Rotters is not FANTASY. Nor is "Khemri".
Dwarfs, Elves, Orcs and Undead are FANTASY.

Thats my point. Trash the Warhammer Fluff and rely on basic "common sense" established Role Playing / Middle Ages Sword & Sorcery Fantasy background.

why limit ourselves to such a background, when the WFB adds interesting elements? So you're saying ditch Chaos, Amazon, Norse, Lizardmen, Skaven & Chaos Dwarf teams? All these are from WFB...

And technically Khemri is undead in the sand...

I think you're worrying far too much - history has shown that changes WILL happen, but we have the power to change it if we REALLY don't like it, e.g. 4th ed. But if opinion is divided, like it appears to be with the Undead, then chances are the new teams will stay and the old one will too, in some form or another. You have to admit that the undead division is at least logical, and Vampires and Necromancy/Werewolves are "classic" undead.

To all you Undead lovers - you propose we simply stop developing new ideas and leave BB as it is? You think it's as good as it's going to get?

We have to at least experiment...

Toby · Post by **Toby** » Mon Jul 14, 2003 3:23 pm

The "Classic" races should be the "Cornerstones" for the Tpyes of Teams.

Its one thing to Add another Elf Team, but kicking a classic Team out and introducing two new ones is just lame.

Actually, I start liking the Idea of the Khemri - Sand -Ancient -Egypt - Diablo II Act 2 thing.

However, I would like to see clasic teams MODIFIED. For example High and Dark Elves could be in for some Tweaks.

And regarding miniatures: why not simply selling NEW High Elf minis? The old ones were never popular anyways...

Indigo · Post by **Indigo** » Mon Jul 14, 2003 3:32 pm

Toby wrote:Its one thing to Add another Elf Team, but kicking a classic Team out and introducing two new ones is just lame.

why?

because you think GW are just doing it for money? they probably are. But at the end of the day, we like their game. We like their figures. And we are getting a say in where they go. The Undead team were broken, no denying it. Maybe converting them to 3 other teams was NOT the right way to do things, but at least we have the chance to try things out and correct it, and after everything has been tweaked we'll have teams MOST people like and some cool new minis. We won't ever be able to please everyone - there are stacks of people around here still playing 3rd ed because they hated 4th, and they don't care that we've moved on past that.

Look what they did in WFB - exactly the same thing, but they are now stuck with 2 different brands of undead.

it's probably a case of "Get stuck in, get your voice heard". It might not change things, and it might have an effect. Sometimes you'll lose (like this time, Undead "under attack") sometimes you'll win. But you have your chance

MickeX · Post by **MickeX** » Mon Jul 14, 2003 11:33 pm

Indigo wrote: To all you Undead lovers - you propose we simply stop developing new ideas and leave BB as it is? You think it's as good as it's going to get?

From what I've read here on TBB, very few of us who would like to keep the undead roster are against adding the other teams (though they could certainly be adjusted a bit).

Micke