Why is impossible to remote ....

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Mon Mar 04, 2002 3:39 pm

Longshot .... posted this above in an earlier post.

Ogres in my league follow BB2k1 rules ... normal progression, no ability to lose Bonehead.

The Ogre team in my league is double progression, no ability to lose Bonehead.
However the Ogre team is a house rule, since the team does not exist in BB2k1.

Like I said, I'll agree to disagree with both of you. I'd rather have the 3 skill Ogre with Bonehead, then a 1 skill Ogre without for a team that wasn't all Ogres. Since you are league commish and agree with Trambi ... that means all is great on your side of the pond and all is well on my side as well.

DaFrenchCoach · Post by **DaFrenchCoach** » Mon Mar 04, 2002 4:05 pm

Hi Longshot !

"okay,Morg has exist before Big guys rules but why did people created them? 2nd background and the pleasure to create his own Ogre."
"- i think that normal progression for big guy is too great for them, most particularly in a Big guy Team!!!"

Yes they were. But not as a complete team (oldheim ogres, that you know well, has 6 ogres, and 4 goblins, starplayers book p42.). So you can't compare Big guys teams from 2nd edition, and 4th gold edition big guys teams.

"Oldheim Ogre has done some quite good results DaFrench, read your 2nd Ed book again. they didnt won the BB but all the great team didnt as well...so read what they ve exactly done before saying they are loosers..."

I would be very happy you let me know the oldheim ogres background more precisely than in 2nd edition rule books

But if you want to be very serious with it, if you take a look on the standings from 2nd edition (1990-1991 Championship or something like that) in the rule set, you will see there's not a good team. If you read again, you will see that oldheim ogres are very feared...if only they'd find Blood Bowl pitch. For me that's exactly what bonehead translates.

One more time, if you want to have house rules that have been accepted in your league, why not ? I'd rather be very prudent with new teams, that's all.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: DaFrenchCoach on 2002-03-04 17:13 ]</font>

Longshot · Post by **Longshot** » Mon Mar 04, 2002 5:31 pm

Dafrench:
People has played with those rules before 4th ED, there are not mine...
About Oldheim :May be a cheeleader (elf i guess)or maybe Star book or Expanded rules book from 2nd ED, in the 'do ya know?' block
There is no gobbo in Ogre team nowadays.
and in 2nd ED, they count as 2 players on the pitch, not now, so they are very strong.
Imagine 11 Ogre or 8 with all of them 3 skills....i get crazy and i run into the crowd!!

Galak: In fact i prefer having Ogres with 3 skills and some withourt bonhead

but i only get the point of vue of Trambi:he has some skilled Ogre but their is only one he can realyy depend on cos he has loosed his Bonehead.
For myself(in my goob team) i prefer my Ogre with 3 skills than loosing Bonehead.

But as You said Galk, all is great in both side (for the moment). nothing is definitive in BB.

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Mon Mar 04, 2002 6:58 pm

Just as a footnote ... I've already played an Ogre based team for a league season under BB2k1 (keeping double progresssion) ... I went 3-2 for the short season ... cannot say that all my players having Bonehead and not being able to lose it bothered me at all.

I guess that what I am pointing out was based on actual experience running an Ogre team, so Trambi has played them more ... but I have some ideas of how the team works.

Galak

DaFrenchCoach · Post by **DaFrenchCoach** » Mon Mar 04, 2002 8:48 pm

On 2002-03-04 17:31, Longshot wrote:
About Oldheim :May be a cheeleader (elf i guess)or maybe Star book or Expanded rules book from 2nd ED, in the 'do ya know?' block
There is no gobbo in Ogre team nowadays.
and in 2nd ED, they count as 2 players on the pitch, not now, so they are very strong.
Imagine 11 Ogre or 8 with all of them 3 skills....i get crazy and i run into the crowd!!

But as You said Galk, all is great in both side (for the moment). nothing is definitive in BB.

Ah... That's exactly what I want to say (and to hear). In fact, I didn't understood why we were not OK...

I know there are no gobbo in ogres teams nowadays. If I wouldn't be very fair, I would say there are no Ogre team nowadays

I just remind it to you in order to think Big Guys teams were at anytimes (except with 4th Gold Edition) hard teams to play, and didn't have a lot of chances to win. If you admit bonehead can be removed, it becomes beadie teams (to my mind). But as I said before, the fact is everybody can play BB like he likes, with commisionner and others coaches agreement.

About Oldheim Ogres, nothing read about "do you know" in Starsplayers Book and Companion... But you'd better take a look on the rulebook. There's standing with a season, with oldheim ogres. they were not very good. BTW, I always had a question about it: there were real GW studio league results or not ?

Acerak · Post by **Acerak** » Mon Mar 04, 2002 10:07 pm

I think there's a pretty simple solution, and we've already given you the option in the Rules Review: If you want Morg, pony up 95,000 gold pieces for the game and get him!

Otherwise, it's possible to build your own "star Ogre," it's just not possible to make him look exactly like Morg. And no one ever built up an old 3E Ogre into Morg, did they?

Trambi, it seems that you're saying this:

1. "My player can't be a Star because he can't become like Morg."

2. "Morg has a bunch of stats AND he doesn't have Bonehead."

3. "But really, Morg isn't Morg just because he doesn't have Bonehead, even though that's about the only way I can't turn my guy into Morg."

These three statements seem a little cycical (or incompatible) to me.

Here's a possible house rule for your league: "Smart" Big Guys!

Smart Ogre (No Bonehead, 150K)
Smart Troll (No Really Stupid, 160K)
Stable Treeman (No Take Root, 150K)

Etc.

But no, I wouldn't expect to see the rules change next year on this one. And they certainly won't change because of Morg. I'd rather take the cards out of the game entirely if push came to shove on that one.

-Chet

Trambi · Post by **Trambi** » Mon Mar 04, 2002 11:49 pm

One more time, I don't want to make Morg with a standard ogre, i just want that the system of experience make it possible (but higly unprobable). It's to enable the star players system to be in harmony with the experience system.
Your proposal is good

if you limit the number of them.

Trambi · Post by **Trambi** » Mon Mar 04, 2002 11:56 pm

On 2002-03-04 22:07, Acerak wrote:
(...)

Otherwise, it's possible to build your own "star Ogre," it's just not possible to make him look exactly like Morg. And no one ever built up an old 3E Ogre into Morg, did they?
(...)
-Chet

Sorry but with the CJ article by Jervis Jonhson (Daddy !!

)and the 3ed edition it was possible to have an ogre remote bonehead (with a double) add +1 St (with a double), block, throw teammate, add +1 mv (10 on experience roll),ag +1 (11 on experience roll), add +1 armor (a double)

oh yes it's possible but highly difficult.
I will calcul the probability for doing such player, next time Ipromise

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Tue Mar 05, 2002 2:24 am

Trambi,

I'm confused ... Longshot already said he agrees with you so in your league you're all set.

You aren't going to change BB2k1 because you are one of a very small number of people who like 3E Big Guys more ... heck even Longshot said he'd rather have the 3 skill Ogre with Bonehead than a 1 skill Ogre without Bonehead on a normal team. Longshot only agreed with you for an all Ogre team ... but all Ogre teams aren't part of BB2k1 anyway ... so why are you posting all the upset faces when you already have what you want in your league. I know its not fun to be in the minority on a topic, but you are on this one. So just be glad that Longshot agrees to let you play the way you want and move on.

I agree with Chet ... I'd rather see Morg, Varg, and Ripper forever removed from BB2k1 then go back to 3rd edition Big Guys.

Galak

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: GalakStarscraper on 2002-03-05 12:54 ]</font>

Longshot · Post by **Longshot** » Tue Mar 05, 2002 12:10 pm

dont be rude please, he is an Ogre...

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Tue Mar 05, 2002 12:57 pm

Sorry ... not trying to be rude at all. Just don't understand where Trambi is coming from, since he already has a league willing to play his way.

My confusion is does Trambi want BB2k1 changed back to 3E for Big Guys for everyone ... just isn't going to happen, because they are better now then they were before.

Galak

Trambi · Post by **Trambi** » Tue Mar 05, 2002 1:39 pm

The removing of Varag and others is in harmony with the experience system.

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Tue Mar 05, 2002 2:10 pm

Okay that helps ..... hmmmmmm if I understand correctly Trambi would rather see Varag, Morg, and Ripper go bye-bye so that all the Stars are possible.

Okay, I can see your point, but I also know you don't like Star players so this makes a whole lot of sense to me.

All I'll say on this is that most of the coaches I know that play with stars would like to have the chance to freeboot Morg once in a while even if he is an impossible star. Basically if I understand correctly, you have a problem with the BB2k1 Big Guys mostly because they don't validate the stars.

If this is the case, I can agree with your position somewhat ... however I think that enough people enjoy playing with those 3 players that they can handle three small exceptions to the rules and the fact that the stars are not "realistic" in game terms.

Oh and Trambi, I have no problem with you discussing this here .... see sometimes its difficult for me to understand where exactly you are coming from ... but I cannot fault you that as you are dealing with a 2nd language here ... if I tried asking my questions in French you'd die laughing. So sometimes its difficult to determine exactly what you are saying ... I honestly was not telling you not to discuss the rule here, I was just trying to understand if the direction of your statements were that the whole system of BB2k1 needed changed in your opinion for Big Guys or not.

I think I have a better understanding now ... you can live with the BB2k1 if they got rid of the impossible stars ... okay that I understand ... I can even agree with it somewhat ... but I still maintain that in life there are geniuses who only come around every century or so, and that perhaps Varag, Morg, and Ripper are such players and the reason they don't be duplicated with the rules is that they really are the exception to the rule.

Galak

Trambi · Post by **Trambi** » Tue Mar 05, 2002 3:11 pm

I can understand that but all (orc) teams can buy (freeboot) them so they are not as unusual as they seem to be.

Longshot · Post by **Longshot** » Tue Mar 05, 2002 5:41 pm

i think you understood Trambi Galak:
the goal of the discussion was not to change your opinion about 2k1 and Ogre,Stars but only to explain an idea that you get.
for the others that just dont read before:
we dont really like Stars in small backgroun team (like starting team) and we like the concept that every stars is hard tobe true but is realistic with the rules.