Claw - any armour roll of 8 or more

[inkpwn]

bout time to lock this thread up

QFT. Someone please. This is just going in circles....round and round and round.

Cupcake, look at your pole, your wrong, end of. Take the bruise to your ego already. Its time to pack this up.

[dode74]

I have no idea what your last post is suppose to mean.

Perhaps if you were to consider that I might have been responding to the one you made just before it then the context will become clear

[Krulfang]

If the poll would have been 50/50 people who don't want change would say that is not enough of a reason to change anything. If the poll was flipped then I would be accused of getting my family members to post on the poll.

I was giving you the benefit of the doubt until this. This is illogical reasoning buddy. For instance, the Bretonnian poll (which I'm sure a lot of us remember) was much more even, and meaningful discussion was had, and not everyone supported Galak throughout the discussion. If the claw pole was more 50/50 we would have examined the skill much more closely. Also, I disagreed with people like Darkson there, but here I am in total support of his side of the arguement, so you can't call favoritism or resistance to change. I'm a guy who wants tointroduce new teams and new star players all te time at my local club, but as the old adage goes: if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

If te poll was the other way around, we would simply have to ask those voters to speak their mind more. They would have been the silent majority, to coin a political phrase, and we would have been shocked but loved to hear from that many people.

As for posting it on the "main forum" I'm not sure what you mean. 75 is a good number of people on a forum poll, so many of the active members here have voted. If by main forum you mean te Cyanide BB forum (which is odd to do, but since you came from there, I understand) go post a poll over there and link the results.

[cbbakke]

fair enough. Thanks for the post. Maybe I was wrong about the group here, I can admit that. When the same people who jump on the Dodes posts on the main forum also appeared here, I was starting to think I was just pulled into a side clique.

If the poll would have been 50/50 people who don't want change would say that is not enough of a reason to change anything. If the poll was flipped then I would be accused of getting my family members to post on the poll.

I was giving you the benefit of the doubt until this. This is illogical reasoning buddy. For instance, the Bretonnian poll (which I'm sure a lot of us remember) was much more even, and meaningful discussion was had, and not everyone supported Galak throughout the discussion. If the claw pole was more 50/50 we would have examined the skill much more closely. Also, I disagreed with people like Darkson there, but here I am in total support of his side of the arguement, so you can't call favoritism or resistance to change. I'm a guy who wants tointroduce new teams and new star players all te time at my local club, but as the old adage goes: if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

If te poll was the other way around, we would simply have to ask those voters to speak their mind more. They would have been the silent majority, to coin a political phrase, and we would have been shocked but loved to hear from that many people.

As for posting it on the "main forum" I'm not sure what you mean. 75 is a good number of people on a forum poll, so many of the active members here have voted. If by main forum you mean te Cyanide BB forum (which is odd to do, but since you came from there, I understand) go post a poll over there and link the results.

[alternat]

and, please, mind:
this is the main forum about Blood Bowl.
Cyanide is a forum about a BB-related videogame.

[cbbakke]

I have played the table top since 95 and wish the game was bigger in my area so I could get more table top games. Sorry by main forum, I ment main stream forum. No offense intended toward this forum.

[funnyfingers]

Smeborg - You do have counters, but you have to deal with taking these counters and many times not needing them. Also the few people you put these counters on aren't always where you need them. Claw/MB/PO are almost always useful. A fend to prevent a PO isn't always useful especially when you hit the guy without the fend.

[gandresch]

Hi,

like i told in the "Claw-Poll", i would appreciate, if the Claw skill reduces the AV to 7 and AV+ are counted afterwards, so that the AV can increase to 9 if you have 2 AV+ as skills after the usage of Claw.

Greets,
gan

[plasmoid]

I've been thinking that too - though admittedly it would be a bit cludgey.

[Darkson]

Not for me - players with +AV are the ones the skill is meant to go after (as well as the ones with "natural" high AV).

[Corvidius]

Not for me - players with +AV are the ones the skill is meant to go after (as well as the ones with "natural" high AV).

+1 to that.

I've an Av 10 Ogre and I quite rightly fear Claw but a +Av Model shouldn't be better off than a naturally armoured opponent.

[Mirascael]

Meaning that AV+1 is just another almost entirely useless skill (as if i wasn't already far worse than MB). Why you'd even bother to implement it is beyond me. A player with AV+1 is merely an indicator of a scrub-coach.

You really should consider to rename this game Clawpomb Bowl or Pokemon Bowl (as the game has become pretty much one-dimensional).

I am genuinely surprised how little many of the old-timers (and BBRC-members) around here know about game design and balance, and I'm neither ironic nor sarcastic, no disrespect implied either. I'm honestly shocked, you guys are truly starting to scare me.

[plasmoid]

Hi Mirascael,
it's funny that what you think is so blatantly obvious is being discussed so vigorously.
I checked in on fumbbl, and I'd say that the jury still seems to be out.
You've obviously made up your mind though. Good for you. Duly noted.

[spubbbba]

Hi Mirascael,
it's funny that what you think is so blatantly obvious is being discussed so vigorously.
I checked in on fumbbl, and I'd say that the jury still seems to be out.
You've obviously made up your mind though. Good for you. Duly noted.

Well the discussion over on FUMBBL and Cyanide is pretty much similar to how it is over here. It's just a few very vocal whiners who only play pointless games matched by TV crying that Claw/MB/PO gives them no chance. Whilst the vast majority of people who play in TT and cyanide's online leagues say things are fine, heck even the stats from and Cyanide don't prove things are all that out of whack.

We always see this in internet forums, it only takes a few people to make something look like a big issue, those monster claw threads on cyanide are just Dode74 and Cbbakke arguing now.

[garion]

Hi Mirascael,
it's funny that what you think is so blatantly obvious is being discussed so vigorously.
I checked in on fumbbl, and I'd say that the jury still seems to be out.
You've obviously made up your mind though. Good for you. Duly noted.

To be fair to Mirascael the vast majority of Fumbbl believe it is very overpowered for that environment, most people including some very highly respected coaches (that I will not mention the names of out of respect) just cant be bothered to waste their time here arguing this point. There are also a number of coaches that use teams maxed out in this combo on a reguar basis on fumbbl who are the first to admit it is too powerful. The problem is not an issue in small TT leagues but will be in perpetual ones featuring those killer teams.

The idea to include Av+ skilled players extra Av after the armour roll is a good idea. But it is just another way of masking of the problem.

Claw should only count toward Av when paired with MB and MB should not - then if the AV is broken MB can be used on the injury. The stack is just ridiculous -because teams like Lizardmen simply have no possible chance of competeing at a high TV in a perpetual league anymore. Either that change or it should only be attainable on a double roll (which makes more sense to me) so it was not so wide spread and easy to make a team full of claw MB PO platers that can decide a game in 2 or 3 turns.

Also the consensus seems to be that +av is a waste of time. This skill is only ever useful in small non perpetual leagues. Any teams in open divisions or perpetual divisions are wasting there time with this skill because it is undone with such an easily attainable skill combo that is very wide spread.

Having thought about it for a while now my solution to all these problems would be to bring back traits (though not excatly how they used to work). I would also make it so only chaos warrior have access to mutations on a single roll beastmen do not and change Pilling On rules so they use Galaks suggestion for how the rules could be changed for online play (its in the other thread)

Each team would have 1 or 2 special abilities that can only be obtained on a double.
The traits would be -
Claw (leave it as it is)
Leap
Jump Up
Foul Appearance (this would combine FA and DP again)
Sneaky Git (rule change:add an additional +1 to fouls can stack with DP)
Stand Firm ( an additional stand firm that uses the old LRB4 rules for it, players that start with Stand Firm (treemen and Golems would get the trait version of it lets call it super standfirm for now just for arguements sake, the current stand firm would still be obtainable as a normal S skill.)

Teams traits
Claw - Chaos, Chaos Pact
Leap - Wood Elves, High Elves, Pro Elves, Dark Elves
Jump Up - Slann, Norse
Foul Appearance - Skaven, Nurgle, Underworld
Sneaky Git - Ogre, Halfling, Underworld, Goblin, Vampires
Frenzy - Lizardmen, Norse, Orcs, Chaos Dwarves, Dwarves
Super Stand Firm - Humans, Amazons, Khemri, Undead, Necro

Now Im not sure if i have put the right teams with the right traits that was just my gut feeling. But I think this would make the game far far more balanced and it would have very little impact on the current rule set for small TT leagues that are not being effected by the problwems that perpetual leagues are currently facing.