Claw - any armour roll of 8 or more

[dode74]

it is very overpowered for that environment

Indeed, the environment is the issue. How about we change that instead of the rules?

[Mirascael]

it is very overpowered for that environment

Indeed, the environment is the issue. How about we change that instead of the rules?

Erm, when perpetual league rules don't work within a perpetual league environment, then it is the league that is flawed?

[dode74]

I've not seen any evidence that perpetual leagues aren't working. Where is it?

[garion]

Have you tried playing in a perpetual league yet?

Once fumbbl has got the league division ready I'm fairly certain that within a few season there will be ample evidence.

So lets wait till then.

I would be interested to see what Mirascael and Plasmoids thought of the changes I proposed

[Mirascael]

I would be interested to see what Mirascael and Plasmoids thought of the changes I proposed

Too clunky tbh!

Better think of adjustment screws / leverages like Claw.

[garion]

Even the bringing back of the traits?

I thought you would have been a fan of that.

[dode74]

Have you tried playing in a perpetual league yet?

How does 7 seasons of OCC sound to you?

[voyagers_uk]

Have you tried playing in a perpetual league yet?

Once fumbbl has got the league division ready I'm fairly certain that within a few season there will be ample evidence.

So lets wait till then.

I would be interested to see what Mirascael and Plasmoids thought of the changes I proposed

and yet more convincing evidence by a proponent as to why you should never join fumbbl... You are even predicting a fail situation well in advance and not putting some structure in place for your "house" perpetual league to prevent what you and a very few others see as a problem.

The Majority do not see this as an issue given that we play in tabletop leagues where this behaviour would only last a while before the commish would have a quiet word with the miscreant, so really your leagues are either populated by powergamers who don't give two hoots for the social health of the league, or run by people who owe them money....

[Mirascael]

Even the bringing back of the traits?

I thought you would have been a fan of that.

I actually like the increased freedom of the new system. Way better than before in my opinion.

[Mirascael]

Have you tried playing in a perpetual league yet?The Majority do not see this as an issue given that we play in tabletop leagues where this behaviour would only last a while before the commish would have a quiet word with the miscreant, so really your leagues are either populated by powergamers who don't give two hoots for the social health of the league, or run by people who owe them money....

Playing the best roster with the most efficient skills doesn't make you a miscreant or powergamer, expect that to happen a lot in competitive environments on a regular base.

For casual leagues with only a few games, low-level TV and/or mediocre playing skills, crp should work just fine. But in such a scenario, almost all rules will. In order to achieve a fail-proof game-design for high-level environments you need to implement proper adjustment screws and leverages (e.g. Claw).

[garion]

Have you tried playing in a perpetual league yet?

Once fumbbl has got the league division ready I'm fairly certain that within a few season there will be ample evidence.

So lets wait till then.

I would be interested to see what Mirascael and Plasmoids thought of the changes I proposed

and yet more convincing evidence by a proponent as to why you should never join fumbbl... You are even predicting a fail situation well in advance and not putting some structure in place for your "house" perpetual league to prevent what you and a very few others see as a problem.

The Majority do not see this as an issue given that we play in tabletop leagues where this behaviour would only last a while before the commish would have a quiet word with the miscreant, so really your leagues are either populated by powergamers who don't give two hoots for the social health of the league, or run by people who owe them money....

I do play in a TT league, and it is luckily short seasons and reset every season. I agree with you that social barriers prevent this type of thing happening in perpetual TT leagues because no one would like to face a team that wins every game and destroys half your team in the process without having to put much thought into it.

The problem is people are saying the problem with the current rule set just doesnt exist. Well it does, it is just that TT leagues are generally either too short or run with a social conscience which guides the game away from this happening. This does not mean that the rules are flawed though.

Also Fumbbl will have a huge number of leagues to catter for all including BB 7s, standard leagues, leaues that reset every season. Unique ones like the no block league or the 1 player team league that have ran before lol. So there will be leagues that deal with the problem in their own way - also most leagues have a racial restriction of only 4 teams of each race may apply. So your point about fumbbl in that respect is moot. But as said before just because TT has more guidelines and ethical boudaries doesnt make the rules balanced.

[plasmoid]

Hi Garion,

To be fair to Mirascael the vast majority of Fumbbl believe it is very overpowered for that environment

Really?
Not quite the impression from the thread I read.
Then again, I'm not a member of that community.

Perhaps a poll would be revealing?
Clawpomb is overpowered. So is plain Pomb.
Clawpomb is overpowered
Clawpomb is good, but not overpowered.

Fair options?
Cheers
Martin

[Xeterog]

Claw should only count toward Av when paired with MB and MB should not - then if the AV is broken MB can be used on the injury. The stack is just ridiculous -because teams like Lizardmen simply have no possible chance of competeing at a high TV in a perpetual league anymore. Either that change or it should only be attainable on a double roll (which makes more sense to me) so it was not so wide spread and easy to make a team full of claw MB PO platers that can decide a game in 2 or 3 turns.

Yes, I'm responding to only one point, but I believe others have responded adequately to the other points here.

In a perpetual league like FUMBBL and CYANIDE, where winning does not matter one bit unless the coach wants it to matter, have a skill only accessible on doubles is no barrier at all. It may take a few more games to get, but you can play hundreds of games per week if you had the time. Money is no problem, and you can fire players that don't get the double by skill X. and start over..eventually, you can build the team to kill everyone else--and you don't really care what your record is, because you BBR (Blackbox Bash Rating) is 190 now.

In a league where winning is the goal, even in perpetual leagues where you don't restart teams every season, this combo is not a problem. You either build your teams to beat them (it can be done), or they are so caught up in causing death and destruction that their teams never make the playoffs, much less win the 'championship'. Also, in leagues, stuff like 'bounties' are usually put up to try and kill these killer players (in my 1st BloodBowl league, 3rd edition, there was a Mummy with DP (+2/+2 and got spp for it) that was the killer player in our league. I think the bounty was up around 200k for him when I killed him and he didn't regen) and other things to discourage such "I only care about how many players I kill" mentality that sometimes seems rampant. I know that in any TT league I've been a part of, people that expressed attitudes that some I have seen with these teams have, that coach would not be welcome in the league for long at all.

The problem is the Format (tho I do like BBox games, and the FFB client alot), not the skill. I would not mind seeing the change to piling on go thru tho.

one other thing. +AC is not as horrible as some think. Even vs claw teams, if your player is down, but still on the pitch, a foul is that much harder to succeed. and Not all teams nor all blocks will be with claw.

[Corvidius]

I wouldn't have thought that Lizardmen would be too brutalized at high tv, Break Tackle on the bigger players and Blodge Sidestep on the little guys would allow them to play the same step back manouvrable play that Elves love so much and which limits the hits you're taking. Break Tackle is an underrated skill that can really have a huge impact at any tv. In my opinion at least.

[garion]

On fumbbl the statistics that I have missplaced but will find later are showing that Lizardmen are the worst performing team along with Ogres at a TV of 2000 or higher (flings and gobos are not represented at a TV that high). They also show that they start off well and as the TV increases past 1500 they drop into the lower tier and by the time the reach 2000 they are performing worse than any other team.

I will update this post with the stats when i find them