Wild Animals suck!

[Pantera]

Both my opponent and two who watched the semifinal agreed with me. That my Rat Ogre lost the semi-final for me. Without him, I would have had a much more even game.

He got me four(!) immediate turnovers. That's 4 turns when the opponent got 2 consecutive turns playing.

I tried to use him defensivly, but sometimes a rat gotta do what a rat gotta do, and he blitzed into the frey (me trying to keep him guarded). Anyway, in two of the cases, he managed to move in his Ogre, and not standing downed players around the RO, so I only had one choice, blocking his ogre with one die without block the first thing in my next turn.

The other two cases where me trying to blitz down weak 'umans getting 2 dice block rolls. As you now, the odds are 1/9 that you will fall down on a two dice roll without block. And I managed to do that twice in the game.

No ReRolls either of course.

Wild Animal just plain sucks. The Rat Ogres where very good before, the best Big Guy. So in comes overcompensation, and we make it the worst Big Guy instead. Ok, I'm pissed about loosing, and having a bad luck game. But his Ogre didn't do FOUR IMMEDIATE TURNOVERS. Ok if the Ogre is stupid, big deal you can still play your turn.

[Trambi]

He can stay in dugout if you don't want to use it.
Hopefully Rat ogre have a this major bug cos if not they will be perfect blitzers. And who are the best players (according to the background and the star players) Ogre, human Blitzer and Vampire. Not Rat Ogre !

However I would like that it was possible to remove Negative skills to big guys. (perhaps on 12 on skill roll) but this another issue.

[Pantera]

True, but the best would be to kick him and add a assistant coach instead. I only had 12 players in the team for the game (darn niggling injuries), and in the second half only 11 for setup. But I choosed to use him anyway, hoping that he would help against the powerful human team. But he didn't at all.

[Marcus]

There's a thread in BB2k1 rules discussing the "play the player, not the ball" aspect of the current wild animal rules. Our league will be playtesting the current rules without the forced block aspect. I'll post to the board with findings.

Marcus

[McDeth]

i think in this instance you may have used him too agressively. if your rat Ogre goes down once like this, then he's got to stay down. Don't stand him up at all if it means next turn he has got to take another defenders choice block. If you keep him on the floor, then your opponent has to surround him with players any way if his tactic is to get you to cause your own turnover, so he'll be doing his job bty attracting their attention while the rest of your team outnumber the opposition.

But yeah i still agree with you. Wild Animal does suck

[Pantera]

Marcus: I found it later, and will be talking to the people I play with if they agree on testing it.

McDeth: Well, its partly true, I was a bit to agressive in some moments. But at other times, I tried to be defensive and more careful, but it didn't work anyway. The problem begun after I had tried to use the RO against him, he was able to turn it against me. When I was most defensive, he only had STR3 guy(s) beside the RO, but rolling bad despite 2 block dice didn't help me.

Starting your turn with a 1/9 chance for a immediate turnover isn't that fun.

[McDeth]

fair enough.

i've always been a non fan of the wild Animal rule, but until now i thought i was on my own

[Pantera]

It was a bit like Marcus has stated in his thread in RR2001, he 'played the animal'. I still have one game left, I'll try to be more careful and perhaps not using him on offense setups.

[Anthony_TBBF]

Both my opponent and two who watched the semifinal agreed with me. That my Rat Ogre lost the semi-final for me. Without him, I would have had a much more even game.

I can say that about all my players, watch it works for all of them!

Both my opponent and two who watched the semifinal agreed with me. That my Catcher lost the semi-final for me. Without him, I would have had a much more even game.

Both my opponent and two who watched the semifinal agreed with me. That my Blitzer lost the semi-final for me. Without him, I would have had a much more even game.

I could go on and on

[Pantera]

I could go on and on

Sure, but you are missing the point. No other players than WA can get the other player two consecutive turns with a immediate turnover.

It's one thing if you roll bad and do coaching mistakes, its another when there is a rule imbalance, that can be used by the other player.

[Dangerous Dave]

But that's the whole point.

If you put the WA in the wrong place - then you deserve all you get.

Of course a WA is not the only player that can cause a t/o first up... any player can do that... fail a dodge, roll double skulls etc.


A rule imbalance - not for me.... play the Rat Ogre well and you should be OK most of the time (not all the time). If you put him on the line / send him on a jaunt upfield.. well you get what you deserve!


Dave

[Trambi]

For me without major disadvantage Rat Ogre is almost perfect blitzer. And the BB background show that they are not perfect blitzers.

Perhaps the WA's rule must be changed but it must stay a major disadvantage.

[Ryk]

Of course a WA is not the only player that can cause a t/o first up... any player can do that... fail a dodge, roll double skulls etc.

A WA is the only player that can cause a turnover before the coach has made any decisions.

All the situations you mention, failed dodge, double skulls, etc., involve the coach deciding to take those actions at that time. With the WA, the coach just makes dice rolls.

[Pantera]

But that's the whole point.
If you put the WA in the wrong place - then you deserve all you get.
Dave

Completely wrong. The WA is not a baby, with your idea of playing him he shold be on the deep backfield not to be moved against any dangerous players from the other team. The problem you are not realising is that as soon as you use him for a blitz, even in the backfield, (which is your tactic) he WILL get exposed to 'play the animal'. You cannot build your plays with a cage of players around the WA, especially not with skaven.

So the WA Big Guys is to be played deep down your own field, not moved against the scrimmage anytime at all, and if anything more than a ST2 catcher comes through, you shall not use him to blitz that player.

In my game, I did some mistakes that I admit. But I also played him defensivly and failed anyway.

[Dangerous Dave]

OK I agree that the WA is not a baby.....

And no I wouldn't always use the Rat Ogre only in the back field. He is very useful for blitzing a hole in a defence for a gutter to run through. To do this you need to have him in the right place on the field. Play like this and the Rat Ogre cannot be played.... since you score.

In a non scoring position, if you blitz the right player with the Rat Ogre, then you shouldn't expose the Rat Ogre to "play the player" unless you roll 2 sets of pushes.... even then you should be able to give him some help. If you can't then don't take the blitz.

And yes, score 2 TDs with the Rat Ogre and you have a skill roll. Play it properly and as long as you are up against a similar TR team that shouldn't be too difficult. Even if you don't want to take a chance on scoring a TD, casualties are not too difficult to get and remember the cheesy pass play at the end of a half for 1 SPP.


Maybe the way I play a WA is not your style... but then I've never suffered 4 turnovers by a Rat Ogre in one game.... as you have said yourself that must in part be due to bad play not only the negative effects of the Wild Animal.


Dave