Talk Fantasy Football

Salutations Readers,

I had a couple of issues with my last game at NAF Champs and as we were right as the bottom of the event I did not want to cause a fuss at the time but wanted to get a ruling on them to see if I should get a Ref if this happens next time.

1. Taking Back Actions
I am quite happy with coaches changing there mind on the action of the player they are activing if they have not rolled dice yet but my opponent would after moving there third player go back to the first one and decide to put them somewhere else! It was quite confusing to know if players had moved corrected and I kept having to say "I think that is a GFI" and try and work out where players were to start with. Should my opponent be able to go back to previous moves in the same turn or just the player they are currently moving?

2. Assisting a Block
My opponent skulls out on Turn 15; we resolve armour and I start my turn stand some players up declare the Blitz but before I roll the dice my opponent goes "wait I should have had an extra dice on the block last turn we have to go back and resolve that it is the rules". He keeps insisting the rules say he should have had the extra dice and as there is less than 5 minutes on the clock the game will be over by the time we get a ref. I let him have the extra dice and lose the game. Having re-read the assist rules it says you must declare if a player is assisting so while it might have been sporting to roll back and let him have the extra dice I do not think I actually had to do so?

1. Taking Back Actions
Should my opponent be able to go back to previous moves in the same turn or just the player they are currently moving?


Only that player is ok if not roll is made. Nor 3 players later change all three.

2. Assisting a Block
Having re-read the assist rules it says you must declare if a player is assisting so while it might have been sporting to roll back and let him have the extra dice I do not think I actually had to do so?

If you don't count the assist in first play (and both of them don't see that) and he threw the dice and the turn is finished and you started your turn, don't go back. It's your turn and your rival next time will study the situation better.

You are too kind, the next time call the refree, because of your rivals may to know they're playing wrong.

I agree on both questions with you, Marlow, but I am in no position to make an official ruling.

However, I tend to be too nice in play as well (at least I think so). My thinking behind it is this: I want to behave exactly the way which I want my opponent to behave; and that is welcoming, fair and respectful.
I get screwed over from time to time with this attitude, but it is the exception. And besides having the moral high ground then, I get good karma.

The first situation happened to me at the WC in Lucca. My opponent insisted that this is allowed as long as no dice were rolled and I did not want to argue so I let him do it.

But it definately wasn´t a pleasant game as I had to keep track where each of his pieces was until he rolled a dice. I will probably not allow that in the future anymore.

As long as no dice have been rolled I don't mind people moving players back, but if it gets to the point they can't recall where they were then that would be the point I'd say "sorry, you'll have to leave it there".

As for your second question - no. At the end of the day it's my responsibility to know how many dice I should be rolling, though I,as do most of the people I've played, point out if my opponent is rolling to few (as well as to many, if I get it wrong and I've done other actions or passed on to he turn to my opponent -tough.

1. As others have said it's a bit tricky - if for one turn or maybe two they want to take back a move with more than the player they are handling fine; I would think they are being a bit cheeky if they were doing it every turn. I know I have had the situation once in a while where I would like to do it. If the situation were to arise again suggest they use a dice to mark where there players could get to rather than moving all the models and moving hem back.

2. Sorry, you were far too kind. If the dice have been rolled and you have moved onto the next turn then play should just have continued, it would have been hard on him but as others have pointed out it is your own responsibility to know how many dice you should be rolling (before you actually roll them).

No NAF rules on this, only generally accepted practice, gentlemanly conduct, and the TOs word is law

What Sann said.

My general understanding is that everything is at the discretion of the other coach. So generally in games I ask "can I move this guy back?" the first time the situation arises, my opponent says okay, and I do so. This implies a convention of (in the examples you give) it being your choice. So if you feel uncomfortable with him going back three players, then say so. Generally I let people off the first incident of something like this where no dice have been rolled, but say I'd rather them not keep doing it. So specifically :

1) It is at your discretion to let your opponent take actions back. If you are uncomfortable say no. Obviously it is generally accepted a coach can move the current player back if no dice have been rolled, so if you start saying no to that then issues will probably arise.

2) If the rules are quoted correctly above, it seems like assists must be declared so that one is fairly clear cut. Your opponent doesn't get to roll the extra dice. It is interesting though - because if your opponent rolled a 2D that should have been a 1D because he missed a defensive assist, who is in the wrong there? Have you failed to declare your defensive assist and so tough luck the 2D block stands? I've never played it that way previously.


There are only two coaches playing any given game though, so it is up to you to communicate what you think is acceptable with your opponent. It is very easy to be 'too nice' and not want to cause confrontation. But there is always a line, and at some point you will have to say where your own lies.

Whilst I agree it'd ideally be down to the coaches to show common sense and sportsmanship, it might be nice to have a solid naf rule in place regarding moving players back? Some coaches are more gentlemanly than others, and sometimes, just sometimes, you were sure that player needed a gfi to get into base contact, but after the move was changed it was in range

Saying something could lead to bad feelings over the table, and it's really no fun whatsoever playing against someone in a mood. It's also not nice feeling cheated (even if you weren't) just because you're one of the nice guys.

One for the TD election?

Of course it works both ways. I played someone at the weekend who, after I pulled off a chainpush to get someone in range, grumbled that he didn't even know how I got there and made me go back to explain it. This despite me declaring every action very clearly. So feeling cheated does not necessarily equate with being cheated. I think in this case my opponent just wasn't paying attention and somehow this became my fault.

Two customs I've seen that would eliminate most of these issues are turning a model around after moving it (once it's turned, no going back) and asking if the number of dice is agreed before every block (my guy blocks this guy... 2 dice?)

Even if not made into official tournament rules, I would endeavour to agree the above before the game, as it leaves little room for true kind of shenanigans the OP describes.

I wouldn't allow someone taking 3 moves back in my local league let alone a tourney!

Okay, this is actually an important issue.

I played TT-BB for 15 years in a local league based on 3rd-edition rules long before I ever heard of NAF. The PC-game and playing online (OCC) made me realize there is more BB in this world. Which is awesome.

The custom we had in our local league was that all movements should be clearly marked, there was no going back, and "accidental" dodges due to moving wrongly had to be rolled. This is a hardliner way to do it, and I am sure there are leagues out there that are just as nitpicking as ours.

However! 2014 I went to Eurobowl in Belgium for my first ever NAF-tournament. The atmosphere was excellent, people were friendly, and the custom of moving back pieces was clear (as long as no dice are rolled). So much better! It is so much better, that I actually get a tiny bit embarrased by the nitpicking hardliner custom we have been practicing in our league. Forcing people to roll for failed dodges does not promote a friendly atmosphere. These things matter, and being "nice" when you are playing your board game with likeminded people is actually a big deal. And one of the biggest and most surprising advantages to NAF-play. I still get confused sometimes when players teleport fra A to B (15 years of marking squares does that to you...), but I realize that allowing this is a better way to interact with other people. Now this is how we do it in the new local league, using CRP, under the term "HappyBowl."

Of course, there is a limit. Moving several players back is not a problem, as long as you knew where they were. Not excessivly and once people lose track, then there is an issue. But occasional issues like this are actually worth it, considering the alternative is a less friendly atmosphere.

Declaring actions is something people could be better on too.
"1, 2, 3, pick up on a 3+. TRR there, ok hand off to this guy".
Makes a difference, maybe without the TRR a pass would have been better. Even in a top table tournament game I don't think I would be confident in not allowing a hand off here.

One of the French players places a marker on the starting square of your (and his) players when you move them. I quite like this approach as it removes any issues about where he has come from if you want to take back. I think going back beyond where both players can be 100% comfortable is not on, agree it's hard to put your foot down though!

Thank you for all the replied folks. I shall be better informed for my next event.