Worst Positional

[Brunificus]

It's not on the list, but a Slann Blizter is waaaaaaay over priced IMO and never makes a starting team.

[Hitonagashi]

I dunno about never...if you are making a long running Slann team, the blitzers are a good investment early.

Late game, the blitzers are wonderful players. Once they have 3-4 skills, they can really be the beating heart of a team.

All catchers is a great starting build, and great in a <10 game environment, but multiple blitzers really shine when the team has 30+ games.

[Brunificus]

That can be said of the whole team really, but we are talking about players with 0-5 ssp aren't we ? Just about any positional is good after 3-4 skills, will they be on my team eventually sure, are they worth 10k less than a Wardancer, Hell no but that's just my opinion.

[Necro10c]

0-16 Linemen: 4 3 3 9 Thick Skull G 50k
0-2 Blockers: 4 3 2 9 Block, Tackle, Thick Skull GS 70k
0-2 Blitzers: 5 3 3 9 Block, Thick Skull GS 80k
0-1 Chainsaw: 5 3 2 8 Chainsaw, Secret Weapon, Thick Skull G ???
0-1 Bombardier: 5 3 3 8 Bombardier, Secret Weapon, Thick Skull GP ???
0-1 Blunderbuss: 4 3 3 9 Pass, Hail Mary Pass, Thick Skull GP 80k
0-1 Deathroller: You know it, you love it. 160k
TRR: 60k
Bribes: 50k

3x TRR = 180k
1x Deathroller = 160k
2x Blocker = 140k
2x Blitzer = 160k
7x Lineman = 350k
Total = 990k, 12 players with 1 SW
10k in Treasury

WDYT?

I like it, except for the P access on the bomber

[spubbbba]

0-16 Linemen: 4 3 3 9 Thick Skull G 50k
0-2 Blockers: 4 3 2 9 Block, Tackle, Thick Skull GS 70k
0-2 Blitzers: 5 3 3 9 Block, Thick Skull GS 80k
0-1 Chainsaw: 5 3 2 8 Chainsaw, Secret Weapon, Thick Skull G ???
0-1 Bombardier: 5 3 3 8 Bombardier, Secret Weapon, Thick Skull GP ???
0-1 Blunderbuss: 4 3 3 9 Pass, Hail Mary Pass, Thick Skull GP 80k
0-1 Deathroller: You know it, you love it. 160k
TRR: 60k
Bribes: 50k

3x TRR = 180k
1x Deathroller = 160k
2x Blocker = 140k
2x Blitzer = 160k
7x Lineman = 350k
Total = 990k, 12 players with 1 SW
10k in Treasury

WDYT?

I think that’s too near the normal Dwarf team, I’d like them to have a few more options that slow grind but be tier 1.5 - 2. Trouble is the secret weapon rules encourage stalling.
I’d want them to have higher average MA and AG than the normal team but much less block and possibly less armour.

So leaving out the secret weapons

Either
0-16 Linemen: 5 3 2 9 Thick Skull G 50k
0-4 Runners
0-2 Blitzers

Or
0-16 Linemen 5 3 3 9 Thick skull G 60K
0-2 Runners
0-2 Blizters

Maybe
0-16 Linemen 5 3 3 8 Thick skull G 50K
0-2 Runners
0-2 Blizters

TRR: 60k
Bribes: 50k

Maybe throw passblock on the linemen too.

The main thing is to ensure the team uses the weapons. Them being more hardy than the goblins means they can hopefully conserve them longer.

[dines]

Matt> Drop pass access on the bomber, thats too good. Else it looks like actually can be fun!

[mattgslater]

Yeah, 5329 isn't good enough, 5339 is too good. I see Dorfs as slow more than clumsy, so I'd rather see them pay MA than AG. AV8 doesn't do them justice: with 5338 Thick Skull, I'd want to see them with S access... 5338 Thick Skull, GS 60k? That's too pricey... 60k linos and SW teams don't mix. 5338 Thick Skull, GS 50k is too good, unless the rest of the team just stinks. 'Course, as is, they kind of do. But if you gave them +MA across the board, they'd just be really tough, even with the AV drop. Maybe MA4/AV9 is better for a fireplug than 5/8, but if it's all you got MA4 is very, very challenging to make do with.

They already do have much less Block and considerably more maneuverability in the immediate sense, but as I've written them (sans P on Bombardier) to call them Tier 2 is maybe to underestimate the horribleness that is blanket MA4. Maybe MA5 Blunderbuss (same price, he's overcosted in my math) would make a difference.

0-16 Lino 5/3/2/8 Thick Skull GS 50k
0-2 Blocker
0-2 Blitzer
0-1 Chainsaw
0-1 Bombardier
0-1 Blunderbuss 5/3/3/8 Hail Mary Pass, Pass, Thick Skull GP 80k
0-1 Deathroller (0-2? That would be REALLY fun!)

[spubbbba]

Yeah, that’s always been a bit of an issue with Dwarfs, their linemen are the best value players on the team. Both runners and blitzers are overcosted and slayers are very specialist, but starting with block and frenzy makes them a lot more reliable.

I’d like a dwarf team that could pull off the passing game in the same way Orcs can. Ideally I’d like to give them at least 6 players with AG3 and 4 with MA4. Combine that with taking enough away from their AV and losing block to force them away from pure grind and stall.

Who says we need to stick with the existing positionals. Maybe make some Dwarf throwers with strong arm, catchers with diving catch or linemen with AG2 and break tackle?

I think it is a shame that new skills are interesting but most are not really worth 20TV. It would be nice to add them to starting players and avoid the dull block, pass, catch, dodge we always see.

[mattgslater]

I thought the theme was secret weapons? BB teams are like name NPCs: they have a theme, a modifying sub-theme, and some minor unrelated feature/schtick so they don't seem as cardboard-cutout as they are, and then you're done. We could have passy Dwarfs, or we could have weapony Dwarfs, but if we want passy, weapony Dwarfs, the passiness has to mostly come from the weapons (Blunderbuss). Part of the theme of Dwarfs is that they are the slowest race in the WFB/BB world, that only the Dwarf Runner gets to be the same speed as everybody else (it's like that in WFRP too). Orcs, with their 4x MA6 and their MA5 reserves, are faster than Dwarfs are supposed to be. They need a passing game designed around a dreadful lack of speed. On a non-Weapon-themed team, I'd say Nerves of Steel would be fun. But that's too much for one theme team to bear.

Don't underestimate the power of HMP on a team that can't reposition well. Maybe another track skill for the Blunderbuss? Maybe a "catcher" weapon of some sort? Heeheedorfpogo....

[spubbbba]

Ah, I didn’t notice you’d removed secret weapon from the rostered bazookas. That could work as otherwise no one would take one unless they were dirt cheap. Does anyone ever take Barik or Zzarg to use the bazooka? The only times I’ve ever seen then on the pitch they were used as a fodder since they have decent armour.

Bombs and saws work as they are a threat and have unique abilities normal players can’t get, plus if you opponent scores to get them sent off then it can be a good thing giving you a chance to equalise.

The trick is to avoid the dullness dwarfs have with only 1 way to play. LRB4 goblins were fun as they had TTM, were hard to pin down but still went squish. So once the secret weapons get sent off or taken out they are still fun.

I like the idea of rocket powered pogosticks or inspector gadget style spring boots. Dwarfs are famed for not being fast runners, but they have great stamina so maybe something like sure feet.

[mattgslater]

Barik > Babe. Zzharg = cheap one-drive ST4. This guy = passer. Not only is he not SW, he's probably the team captain.

Ooh. Give them two non-SW weapons, in addition to the bomb, saw, and roller: Blunderbuss and Rocket Dwarf (below). MA5/AG2 Linos w/GS access, 50k. 2 Blockers, 2 Blitzers, 60k TRR.

0-1 Rocket Dwarf 5/3/3/9 Leap, Nerves of Steel, Sprint, Thick Skull, Very Long Legs G 90k

Hey, is S access on the Saw and Bomber broken? Saw doesn't work with Mighty Blow or Multiblock. You could take Saw+DP with G-access, but that's not broken, it's just combo (were it not for that horrid 2+ roll, you could . Bombs + Strong Arm = fun or wrong?

0-16 Lineman 5/3/2/8 Thick Skull GS 50k
0-2 Blocker 4/3/2/9 Block, Tackle, Thick Skull GS 70k
0-2 Blitzer 5/3/3/9 Block, Thick Skull GS 80k
0-1 Bombardier 5/3/3/8 Bombardier, Secret Weapon, Thick Skull GS 70k
0-1 Chainsaw 5/3/2/8 Chainsaw, Secret Weapon, Thick Skull GS 80k
0-1 Blunderbuss 5/3/3/9 Hail Mary Pass, Pass, Thick Skull GP 90k
0-1 Rocket-Dwarf 5/3/3/9 Leap, Nerves of Steel, Sprint, Thick Skull, Very Long Legs G 90k
0-1 Deathroller 4/7/1/10 Loner, Break Tackle, Dirty Player, Juggernaut, Mighty Blow, No Hands, Secret Weapon, Stand Firm S 160k
TRR 60k
Apo Yes

[Oly1987]

if there were a dwarf 'catcher' i'd like to see him something like

4/3/2/8 Diving Catch, Sprint, Sure Feet

Still a dwarf (slow, not very agile) but his skills make him much better than his stats suggest, 3+ catch is resonable and a chance to get that hail mary pass, sprint/SF give him a potential 7 movement. Torn on the skill access but was thinking GS with a mind to BT to make him dodge better than an average dwarf.